irwin7638

God forbid she had earned the money for her bike by delivering papers like we did when we were in grade school. They'd try to put you in jail for breaking child labor laws.

Marc

billhobbs

My point was the driver did not have to swerve very far into the other lane. And of course Tennessee law requires a driver of a car give a cyclist 3-foot clearance when passing. Three feet does not require swerving way into the other lane. And if there isn't room to pass safely, the driver must wait until there IS.

billhobbs

My friend state Sen. Kerry Roberts, a bike shop owner and avid cyclist who represents Robertson County and Sumner County (two Nashville suburbs) in the Tennessee General Assembly, is getting involved in this story.

GrantH

Stop lying to yourself. I live in a city of 50,000+ and we have no sidewalks on the main artery through town once you pass the highway interchange. Is a city of 50,000+ with 2 Universities and every major chain of business a "Bum Foo Nowhere" area? Your kidding yourself with unfounded facts. If you look on the streetview she posted by the way, there IS a sidewalk on the left side (school side) of the road that leads all the way up the hill.

billhobbs

That streetview only shows in front of the school - there is a sidewalk in front of the school, but it does not extend very far down the street. It doesn't matter anyway - TN state law says you ride on the street even if there is a sidewalk, UNLESS the sidewalk is specifically designated as a bike path.

billhobbs

The Google Maps street view in front of the school shows an older model Ford Taurus parked at the curb. It's the 3rd-generation Taurus model, which were 73 inches wide (6 feet 1 inch). Eyeballing the street view image it appears the road plenty wide enough to accommodate cars in each lane and a girl on a bike. It's impossible to measure the width of the road from a Google streetview image, but it does not appear to be a particularly narrow road. The lanes are not striped, but if they are 11-foot-wide lanes, that means a typical car has about 5 feet of total clearance on both sides of the car - NOT including the concrete curb/gutter area - with which to navigate around a cyclist without going into the opposite (oncoming) lane.

billhobbs

I looked up the TNDOT traffic count data for Carter County/City of Elizabethton. There is no traffic count data for the main road that that girl rides on, however one road she rides on briefly to get to that road has a traffic count of 1,270. That's the average 24-hour, two direction, traffic volume. In other words, on average, about 26 cars per hour. She's riding to school in the morning around "rush hour" and home in the afternoon before "rush hour" so let's assume traffic is tripled in the morning commute and doubled in the afternoon. So, 78 cars per hour in the morning. Mom says it takes her 7-9 minutes to ride to school. If it takes 10 minutes, the girl is passed by 13 cars. In the afternoon, she's passed by 9 cars (using the averages and a very generous multiplier). On a road wide enough for them to pass her safely. This is not an expressway, people. It is a residential street. The police chief yesterday told me the officer was worried about her safety due to the hill, one sharp corner (where the girl has permission to ride through the grass of the yard there in order to cut the corner), and several side streets dumping traffic onto the main road. Let's consider those. 1. The girl is fine with the hill. That's a non-issue. 2. The sharp corner is also a non-issue. 3. As for the side streets, presumably they have stop signs. If motorists aren't stopping and looking both ways, that is something the police should address by focusing on the drivers of those cars, not punishing the girl by telling her she can't ride her bike on that street.

dynodonn 

I must be looking at the wrong google map, since I spotted two 45mph speed limit signs, one on each side of the school, definitely not my version of a residential street.

UberGeek

Of course a badge does. See my example of police segregating protesters, even though no law is being broken, in the interests of public safety.

LEO's have every authority to do make safety judgement calls.

Again, it seems like a bunch of people here on BF want to make a bfd out of nothing. Had the parent said,"Thanks officer for bringing it to my attention..." The situation would have evaporated into nothing.

Now, the parent, at the time, pushes the LEO into a corner. The LEO pushes back, by involving CPS. The parent pushes back again, and the PD gets the DA involved.

See how this escalation could have been avoided? LEO's don't like doing paperwork. They like being cops. But, they also don't like to have authority questioned (Right or wrong). The same nonsense is going on in another thread here where a school sends out a form letter, and calls for protests on the stairs go out from people here.

It's much ado about nothing really. Now, the situation escalated to CPS and the DA being involved. smh.

himespau 

earlier it was mentioned that the town has two schools and the first one posted was the wrong one. Maybe that's the one you're looking at?

chrisb71

I would rather they change lanes, as long as it's not a double yellow I think it's legal.
Now if they changed lanes on that blind curve that was mentioned, then yes, the driver should get a ticket, You can't complain about a blind curve and then flout danger by moving into the oncoming lane when you just admitted you can't see.

The police should have done that instead of stopping the little girl. Some states have laws saying if a slow vehicle is slowing down 5 cars then it should pull over, or something similar, but obviously nothing remotely like that was happening. I am certainly no expert on TN law but from your interview it sounds like the cops don't know the law either.

UberGeek

No sidewalks mean hardly a consideration for multi-modal transportation was given. Not to peds, let alone to cyclists. The speed limit posted for the road in question is 45mph.

It's a 2-lane country road. It's not a run of the mill residential area, with 25 mph speed limits. This type of setup in inherent in Bum Foo Sticks.

No, your city isn't Bum Foo Nowhere, but it's certainly not friendly to any mode of transportation other than cars.

dynodonn 

That has to be the case, because of all the descriptions of the school in the last few posts were just not adding up.

wnl256

You're looking at the wrong google map. From post #83 in this thread, you should be looking at this one:

https://g.co/maps/upqd

I've looked all around and don't see any speed limit signs. The area is obviously in-town and not at all rural. Unfortunately street view does not extend in the direction that the child rides.

wnl256

It is not a 2-lane country road. If you are seeing 45 mph speed limit signs, then you're looking at the wrong school. Please read the entire thread before you offer up your criticisms and insults (sorry...but "bum foo sticks" qualifies as an insult).

BikeMomTn

This is the correct google earth https://g.co/maps/cn5s

The speed limit on the road is 25 mph. At the top of the hill shown the road widens about another 3 feet for information purposes. I have proposed an alternative route with less traffic, I have been told this isn't the point. Yet in the report it is the point so I have no idea what to believe. My story was kindly put onto the blogs at https://bikewalktn.blogspot.com

I am not trying to be a total idiot here - but if the police are so worried about safety WHY can we not work together for a solution rather then side stepping everything and making me the evil villain here? If it is so unsafe for children to ride to school then why do programs like GetFitTn and Safe Routes to School exist? She is in the final grade of the school - if it is so unsafe WHY does a bike rack exist? The Major stated to me that maybe they didn't know how far it was..Uhm well her address is in the file? They know where we live?

Anyhow the incident report (also posted at https://bikewalktn.blogspot.com)

On 8/25/11 I was monitoring traffic on Cedar Avenue when I observed a young female riding her bicycle southbound on cedar avenue. I observed that vehicles had to slow and negotiate around the the bicyclist. I stopped and spoke with her at the intersection of Bradley Street and Cedar Avenue at which time I identified her as (her name) 10 years of age of (my address). She said he that she rode her bicycle back and forth to school every day. When I ashed why she did not ride the bus that stops in her neighborhood, she replied she had been kicked off the bus before and did not like it. She said she has a brother and sister that ride the bus ona daily basis. In my opinion this section of the roadway is not a safe place for a child of her to be riding unsupervised. I escorted the child to her residence at which time spoke with her mother Teresa Tryon. I informed Mrs Trying that I believed that the child should not be riding her bike to and from school unsupervised at her age. Ms Trying became became defensive and stated that (child name) had been through a bicycle riding course and she was perfectly OK with her riding her bike to school. When I told her I believed it was a safety issue for (child) she said she was OK with and believed (child) to be safe. I informed her that I would have a report and it would be filed to DCS. Once again she seemed unconcerned and stated that DCS had been there last year on the same complaint. She said that DCS told her that it was OK for (child) to ride her bike to school.

The distance from HME to (my address) is one mile. The sidewalk ends in the area of Linden Aven approximately .3 miles from the school. At the point the child would have to ride in the roadway until reaching South Hills Drive. Cedar Avenue at this time of the day is heavily traveled with vehicles and school buses and in my opinion is unsafe for a child of her age to be riding unsupervised.

8/25/2011 16.21
I called CPS and spoke with Pamela Winters and advised her of the situation. She said to fax a copy of the report and they would follow up on the reoprt. I advised her of the details at which time she asked if there was bus service to the residence. I advised there was and she stated the situation would be taken care of.

(1 point is wrong in here..I DID NOT say they where on the same issue - I said they were here on an unrelated issue and I inquired WHILE they were here regarding this)

And by the way - she is NEVER on South Hill Drive because there is a park right after the corner (where she cuts through the yard) that has a paved path going through it. If you look at the google earth you can see the opening AND the basketball court (the brown blob near it is the play area and there is a paved kinda circular path around the area also. THIS is where she comes through once leaving Cedar to return home. here is a google earth of that also https://g.co/maps/zjg6

dynodonn 

Definitely a better cycling landscape than the first google map, it's obvious that some of Elizabethton's motorists don't like having their "space" infringed upon.

dynodonn 

Thanks for the correction, and I see no problem with your daughter riding to school in that type of road environment.

UberGeek

Bum Foo Sticks is an insult? My bad, maybe people shouldn't live in Bum Foo Sticks then...

Either way, the lack of sidewalks shows a definite lack of planning for multi-modal transport, and since the road is unmarked lanes, two-ways, no shoulder, with multiple downhills and blind curves; yes, I can see a possible safety issue.

Right or wrong isn't the case here: Blowing the situation out of proportion is. If the parent just said,"Thanks officer, appreciate you looking out for the kids out there" the situation would have evaporated into nothingness.

contango 

So what do you suppose the police officer would have done a couple of days later when he saw the same girl on the same road at the same time of day, presumably with cars once again forced to "slow and negotiate around (her)"?

BikeMomTn

Uber the officer stood in my yard and told me I have to crack down on her, I'm the adult I cannot let her ride to school. So you are saying I should just bow and say yes sir, thank you sir and go on? No -she has the right to ride her bike to school in a safe and legal manner. Again I will say I have proposed alternative routes (being told this isn't the point). I do NOT allow her to ride if it is dark, foggy, windy, raining or etc because at that point YES it is unsafe because she is a child, she does not have proper lighting.

billhobbs

From the police officer's "incident" report:

Dumb officer thinks cars slowing down to "negotiate around" the cyclist is an "incident" worthy of police intervention.

In fact, it is NOT. In fact, these motorists were, according to his own report, doing EXACTLY what state law requires them to do when passing a cyclist on the road that both motorist and cyclist are equally legally entitled to use. State law requires the motorist to move over to pass a cyclist, giving the cyclist three feet of clearance. And of course state law requires a motorist pass with care, and if that means slowing down, so be it. (The speed limit is 25 anyway - how fast were these cars going?

That the officer thought his observance of motorists obeying the law in order to share the road safely with a cyclist is an "incident" worthy of police intervention and involvement of child protective services and the district attorney suggests this officer is in need of remedial training and is currently not sufficiently well-trained and educated as to the law and his proper role as a police officer.

Having observed the motorists obeying state law and safely sharing the road with the cyclist, the police officer should have continued on his patrol. He saw NOTHING that warranted intervening and detaining this girl and preventing her from continuing her LEGAL journey. If I had money, I'd fund a lawsuit against the Elizabethton, TN, police department and this officer specifically for violation of this girl's civil rights, false arrest, etc. He had NO RIGHT to force her into his police car. He had no probable cause to believe a crime or violation had occurred. In fact, by his own words, everyone was obeying the law.

BikeMomTn

Bill, if I had the money I would. I have spoke with an attorney however I cannot afford to retain one (frustrating point for me)

ghostgirl

where are the limits of this authority? can a cop demand that no one eat at McDonalds because in his judgement they are too fat? or that no one can ride a bike at all in a town because it isn't safe? if the answer is no, why not? if the answer is yes, then what is stopping the police from taking over and us becoming a police state?

joejack951

How old are you anyway? You have a whole lot of opinions being shared on this forum lately.