work4bike

I keep seeing the term FRAP law. I guess it stands for, Far Right As Possible. What exactly do people mean when they use that term, for instance is Florida a FRAP state? Here's our law https://www.dot.state.fl.us/safety/pe...bikeLaws1.shtm

I kind of get the impression there are different interpretations of FRAP, personally I don't have one since I've never heard of it before. I can't even find it when I google it, at least not anything applicable to bikes.

Bekologist

john, 49 of the 50 states have slow moving vehicle FRAP laws in evidence.

as far right as practicable is a near universal traffic construct for slowly operated vehicles. its no problem.

florida is now, unfortunately, a mandatory bikelane state. bike lane use is mandatory ,with exceptions, anytime there is a roadway bikelane.

you can thank Floridas' crowds of audax style team riders for getting some of your state senators incensed enough to smack some MBl laws your way last year. bummer, eh?

frappability should NOT be a problem. it is a near universal traffic construct applaicable to vehicles operating slower than other traffic present, generally, and provides a standard of road sharing for slowly driven vehicles.

bicyclists in North Carolina, for example, are governed solely by the SMV-FRAP laws and are required to operate FRAP at all times (with exceptions), pursuant to the slow moving vehicle laws of that state. Bikes-FRAP laws in other states are generally written much more permissively for bicyclists full lane use.

njkayaker

No. It's short hand for as "far right as practicable". No state uses the word "possible" in thier FRAP law.

It's short hand for this phrase (and the bicycle-specific law that contains it).

https://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0316.2065.html

Bekologist

it is also shorthand for many states' general FRAP law that applies to bike traffic and all traffic.

prathmann

It's actually "Far Right As Practicable" which generally allows more leeway than if it said "possible." Florida's FRAP statute at the link you cited is:
"
Roadway position
(Section 316.2065(5) and (6), F.S.)
A person operating a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic under the conditions existing must ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable [safe] to the roadway's right-hand curb or edge, except under any of the following situations:

• when passing another vehicle
• when preparing for a left turn
• when reasonably necessary to avoid conditions including (but not limited to), a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, pedestrian, animal, or surface hazard
• when a lane is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side."

This is pretty typical although the wording differs slightly in various states. Your impression is correct that there are a variety of interpretations - this is partly because the word "practicable" is not commonly used and has no precise definition. Most consider the term to allow for considerations of the cyclist's safety so that it allows riding far enough from the edge of the roadway to provide some maneuvering room if there are unexpected obstructions and also to avoid door zones of parked cars and to follow a straight path if there is an area with intermittent parked vehicles. But individuals differ as to how much of a margin is reasonable to allow for such safety considerations.

Chris516

FRAP(Far Right As Practicable) is conditional. Prathmann excellently quoted the Florida statute:
But the one part of the statute that is not covered in any state is, 'avoiding being driven into the curb'.

While state laws do make a condition to share the lane if possible, that possibility is by, the respective state's opinion courtesy of a local LEO(Law Enforcement Officer), not the judgment call of the cyclist. I hugged the curb earlier this year against my better judgment. The car next to me drifted towards the curb while passing me in the same lane. I crashed as a result because I was basically shoved off the road. The only good thing about the accident was that it happened a block from the firehouse.

Irregardless of some sort of obstruction in the (accident, construction zone, road surface worn away, etc.), if you don't feel comfortable 'hugging the curb', learn to 'take the lane', because again, the judgment of practicality is up to the cyclist, not the state or the motorist.

The only other point to be cognizant of is, the minimum speed law. If you are on a 40MPH road, the minimum is 30MPH. 30MPH is 20MPH. 20MPH is 10MPH and 15MPH is 5MPH.

So since you were unfamiliar with FRAP, don't go on a road with a 30MPH Max. speed limit until you get accustomed to going fast.

DX-MAN

Oops.

Precise definition is out there, look it up. https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/practicable

Synonyms are 'feasible, workable'.

I use it as 'able to be done safely'. The nice part about the FRAP laws is that they largely give discretion over what is 'feasible' to the rider, not the motorist following. Too bad it's so widely abused in actual practice.

I hear it from ignorant drivers around here as "all the way to the right". Stupid people -- like I'm supposed to pedal with one crankarm over the curb.......

njkayaker

What "minimum speed" law? (No state requires a bicyclist to travel at any particular minimum speed.)

???

DX-MAN

Seriously, where'd that come from?

Bekologist

no doubt.

noisebeam

There are of course the exceptions to frap.
1. if you are being chased by a giant milkshake
2. if you have dreams of chocolate awaiting you at home
3. orange

benjdm

What the heck are you talking about?

RaleighSport

I really want to see this 10mph window of speed limit explained...

SweetLou

I know you are joking around, but I hear this term "exceptions to frap" and I just don't see it that way. They aren't exceptions but clarifications. If it isn't practicable to make a left turn from the far right lane, then move over. If it isn't practicable to ride over debris, then move left. If it isn't practicable to share the lane, then take it. etc.

noisebeam

AZ-28-815 "A person riding a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except under any of the following situations:"

prathmann

Sorry, but I saw nothing in your definition link that provides a precise definition - i.e. one where multiple people can apply the definition and reach a clear, factual, conclusion about what is or isn't "practicable." You even say that you include safety considerations (as did I above), yet that is not mentioned in the definition you cited (i.e. riding in the door zone is "feasible" or capable of being done in practice as is demonstrated every day in busy cities, but I don't consider it to be practicable because every once in a while I see bad consequences happen to those who do so).

And, as others have mentioned, I'd like to see any justification for the 'minimum speed law' claim by Chris516. In California, minimum speed laws explicitly can only apply to vehicles that are registered and so do not apply to bicycles and the only place where I've seen minimum speeds has been on a tiny subset of limited-access highways. I'd be very surprised if any state had the kind of broadly applied minimum speed law mentioned by Chris.

Nor do I see any support in the statute for the definition being up to the cyclist. That would be nice, but if a policeman disagrees with your interpretation strongly enough to issue a ticket then it'll be up to a court to decide if his interpretation or yours was correct. So ultimately the interpretation is up to the judge deciding the case.

Digital_Cowboy

John,

It means As Far Right As Practicable. Here is the subsection from F.S. 316.2065:

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, or substandard-width lane, that makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.

degnaw

I know other people have already called this statement out, but the lowest speed limits commonly in place are 25mph - how many cyclists can maintain a constant 15mph, including on uphills? That "law" would essentially be banning the vast majority of cyclists.

(Edit)
I knew I'd seen that before.

Digital_Cowboy

You ride a bike that's tall enough to have one crank arm over the curb?

gcottay

In which state or nation?

SweetLou

I know they say "except" but that isn't really needed. It is already not practicable to ride over by the white line in those situations. They are just clarifying some situations. Instead of saying "except" they should say something like Ohio says:

Bekologist

BETTER bikelaws than ohios' state bicyclists need only FRAP when faster traffic is present.

and colorados' BIKES FRAP law is one of the most affirmatively worded towards bicyclists, regulating bikes moving slower than traffic use the right LANE, and share only if safe.

bicyclists being required under laws like Ohios' to operate FRAP even with no traffic present kind of blows, to be perfectly honest.

i was riding today in a state that requires FRAP only when riding slower than traffic present.

On a 45mph road, 4 lane , with absolutely no traffic for minutes at a time, I was legally riding middle/ left bias in the outside lane to keep me visible around corners and on hills to approaching traffic from behind as well as potential turning traffic ahead. As traffic approached, i would vehicularily FRAP to facilitate smooth passing.

Being required to FRAP even when there is no other traffic echoes the very restrictive SMV-FRAP constriction that generally require cyclists operate FRAP at all times.

an example of SMV-FRAP laws requiring cyclists always operate FRAP is readily found in the state on North Carolina. a quick check with the state DOT and bicycle regulatory and educational materials all confirm cyclists ride FRAP in North Carolina.

this FRAP always by bikes requirement is clearly and uniformly defined across state lines in multiple states that regulate bikes lane position solely under SMV laws.


Ohio law has a fair number of bike specific exceptions, but not the 'traffic present' exception found in several BIKES-FRAP states.

CB HI

Bicycle FRAP laws are not the same as Slow Moving Vehicle laws.

CB HI

Pretty sure Chris516 is talking about Maryland, and as I recall, they do have some crap laws like that. I do not know of any other state with such laws.

benjdm

Here is the Maryland minimum speed laws. I can't find anything supporting what Chris516 said.

ETA: Ah, here we go, kind of:

Stay out of the left lane (except when making left turns) and you're fine, apparently.