You really don't have a clue, do you?

"Equestrian helmets have sport-specific differences from those used in other sports. For this reason, a helmet designed for another sport, such as bicycle[2] or motorcycle helmet, is not deemed suitable for riding horses."

from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equestrian_helmet

Please, for the sake of all that's holy, refrain from making blanket statements that could adversely influence other people's health when you don't know what you're talking about.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qPlQnJjdGw...8/s1600/a2.png

Nobody is advocating conspiracy. What has been described -- and you are, for some wierd reason, trying to attribute to a conspiracy -- is simply researchers and doctors acting in their own self-interest. Academics like to get published, and it's a hell of a lot easier to get grants if you just go with the flow. Physicians want to get paid and not stick their patients with horrendous bills for non-covered services.

The only one seeing conspiracies here is you.

To upcode a condition to get it covered by insurance is illegal, no doctor will do that and risk his job.

You are kidding, right? Doctors have been upcoding ever since there were codes and insurance. A doctor would have to make a habit of upcoding to an outrageous extent to have any rist of getting caught or sanctioned.

Medical billing and insurance compensation has become a game where doctors upcode, and insurance companies challenge and knock down in a billet a deux worse than the worst practices of auto insurance and body shops.

BTW- doctors would deny upcoding simply to get better compensation, but they'll justify the practice as good, thorough medicine intended to ensure that nothing is overlooked.

Sorry not kidding at all. I'm not saying no doctor does it, but it is illegal and if they get caught they can be punished. Read this: http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com...-upcode-claims

i've hit my head twice in my life while riding.

i came off far better wearing the helmet. my low speed fall on the shoulder of an empty road on an early morning commute required 6 staples in my scalp. when i got hit last monday my head definitely hit the ground. i can't remember any part of the collision or landing and considering the road rash i'm sporting, i'm pretty sure my head wouldn't have fared much better. i don't remember the low speed fall, either.

i'll wear a helmet everyday i ride.

this is a horrible thread and i'm never coming back here.

Thanks for making my point that upcoding and otherwise gaming the system is common if not rampant. The government is very slow to react to minor issues, and even major ones. The fact that the feds feel they need to issue the warning means that it's a serious issue involving a large percentage of the medical industry.

Yes, if caught, doctors will be sanctioned, but unless they are exceedingly greedy the chances of being caught are slim to none, since it's hard to separate intentionally running the tab from cautious, defensive medicine. If you read any press release about controlling medical costs, you'll always see the terms fraud and waste used together. That's because they're very difficult to separate.

Fact is fraud and waste are natural consequences of any third party payment system, whether it's medicine, military procurement, autobody work, you name it. Discount fraud for the moment, neither the doctor nor the patient have any reason to control cost. The doctor is paid for the work, and the patient feels he's getting better medicine. It's not necessarily dishonest, but it creates a bias to more expensive treatments when less costly or even none will do.

.....

While this isn't the friendliest thread on BF, I can't see anything bad enough for you to be so upset about. NOBODY is asking you not to wear a helmet, and there is some good discussion about various facets of helmet protection, which may help you or others make more informed decisions when buying helmets.

Of course, if you don't like it and choose never to come back here, that's up to you.

Just checking in and adding a statistic for those in the "you don't need a helmet" crowd. It pains me, but I feel I must share this anecdote, in the interest of fairness. :)

I was turning on a wet, blacktop street, yesterday when my front wheel washed out and I went down fairly hard. Not a horrendous crash, by any means. I little skin torn off my hand and a raspberry with bruising on my shoulder. But my helmeted head did not strike the pavement. My injuries would be the same even without my helmet.

I'm not of any thought that this will or should change anyone's opinions of helmets' usefulness. The part that made me chuckle what that I thought of this thread as I checked my helmet to see if it was scratched or dinged.

Carry on. :)

This is it, exactly. In my fictitious scenario, the doctor was simply practicing defensive medicine, which I'm sure his employer would be ok with, as it protects them from litigation, which could be more expensive than any fines related to upcoding -- which, as FBinNY pointed out, would have to be done on a massive scale to even be noticed, much less acted upon.

There is no data on whether or not helmets exceed minimum protection standards, providing more protection than might happen in a 5' linear fall, so I do wonder upon what you base your hyperbolic statements. A bicycle helmet may indeed protect against skull fractures in certain conditions with a very narrow set of parameters even though it is not specifically designed to do so. There's no proof that helmets provide such protection; there's no proof they don't.

One of the previous studies you posted debunks your own claim in the second paragraph, above: TBI is caused by DAI, but DAI is not solely caused by rotational forces, such injury can also be sustained as a result of linear forces. Not to mention that another study you posted indicated that certain helmets did help mitigate DAI during crashes which resulted in oblique (rotational) strikes.

The same could be said for any head covering, to include a baseball cap, bandana or wig.

By your same logic, a plastic Jesus duct-taped to your handlebars is equally possible of preventing head injuries. Please, show me the proof that a plastic Jesus does *not* provide the same level of injury protection as a helmet.

Did you read the studies themselves, or just the abstracts? Talk to me after you've digested the whole meal, I don't give a crap about what somebody says after dipping their finger in the soup and licking it.

This may very well be, but it does not change the fact that you got nothing to back up your statement that a helmet "cannot prevent skull fracture." A statement like that is just as bad as all the helmeteers claiming that helmets do prevent skull fractures.

I read whatever was at the links you posted...

Yeah...pretty difficult to think for yourself, isn't it?

I don't find it difficult at all, I'm just sorry it seems like such a task for you.

Bottom line... Anything is better than nothing for a head covering, yes even a baseball cap is better than nothing, and a bicycle helmet is even better than a baseball cap, imagine that. :rolleyes: What it seems to come down to in this thread is, If don't want to wear a helmet, and don't think the risk is high enough so you don't/won't... Which is fine, BUT IMO don't tell other people to not wear a helmet because it won't save you from every conceivable crash... and you don't want to deal with sweaty hair,, or where to carry the helmet when you are done riding... Tell it like it is... You don't think its worth it...AND YOU ARE WILLING TO TAKE THE RISK/CHANCE of riding without.... It's that simple... :twitchy:

Every single decision you ever make in life is a weighing of risk versus reward - marginal expected benefit versus marginal expected cost. If one outweighs the other, that's what informs your decision.

I don't think anyone is telling anyone else not to wear a helmet. At most, I think some people (myself included) are just saying that a helmet may not be necessary in the course of most riding for most adults. Clown noses aren't necessarily needed either, but I don't really care if you wear one; I may get a little bent out of shape if you try to go around telling people you need them to be a rational rider.

(As to suggested costs of wearing a helmet such as getting sweaty hair, etc, I think most of those comments have come out of helmeteers asking "WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE NOT WEAR A HELMET!!!1!!". So they got answers.)

Uh, sure, and the exact same thing is true in the reverse. You think cycling is more dangerous than I do, and you think helmets are more effective than I do, so you choose to wear a helmet. You don't think it's worth it to wear body armor, and you're willing to take the risk/chance of riding without. What's your point?

Can you point to anyone who has contended this? The argument is over what facts add to the risk/reward assessment; how risky is riding a bike, and how effective is a helmet. Those are pretty much the only two points of contention we keep rehashing, because they affect the risk/reward balance.

When I started out riding again, I rode without a helmet for a while. To tell you the truth the main reason I got a helmet was so I could ride in group rides or participate in events that required the use of a helmet. I have wrecked several times before and I never came close to having my head strike the pavement until this incident. Rydabent, you completely get what I was saying. The prior 2 days I was racing on very technical courses without incident and then on a solo ride I did not pick up a rock on the road in time. Others posted that they do not ride with their head down or with obscured eye protection. I was really trying to find a way to explain how I did not see the rock. The easiest answer is the speed at which I was traveling is the main reason. For those of you who think they could have reacted to protect their heads when I struck the rock with my front wheel, you are dead wrong. In an instant I was thrown on my HEAD. It was that quick and the best word to describe the force was violent. No time to react. Nothing. Bam. Head smashing the pavement. Wearing a helmet is still a choice to the rider and I respect that. I just wanted to tell my story that you really have a sense of false security out there if you think you can protect your head if something goes wrong... I wish I would have taken a picture of the helmet, but I tossed it in the trash before I got a picture. Here is just a portion of the road rash.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=339461

You were traveling too fast for your visibility, in other words, riding unsafely. Next time, try leaving the helmet at home and not riding like a chucklehead.

...and how am I supposed to train for upcoming races? It's the risk that I am willing to take. After my experience, I will never ever ride without a helmet. Ever.

-1

You don't want people telling you what to wear while you ride, but you're OK telling others how to ride? :rolleyes: