Characterizing "anti-helmet" posts very negatively is not asking for justification. Similarly, characterizing "pro-helmeters" as hair-shirt nannies is rather negative, but these are also not asking for justification.

I don't think most here ask bare-headers to justify their decision to not wear a helmet. It's more common and probably understandable that they be asked to back up any claims when trying to convince others to not wear a helmet.

This goes both ways. A helmeteer is rarely asked to justify why they choose to wear a helmet. However, when they try to convince others to wear a helmet, they are understandably asked to back up any claims.

That is why I'm still here... I have no problem people deciding not to wear helmets... It's some of the "information" given out by bare headers that doesn't jive with reality, like it's safer to ride without a helmet because, A; you would ride safer, B; your head would actually heave less chance of hitting the pavement, C; A helmet actually increases the injury... :twitchy: Really? while all of this may be "true" in a certain small %... Over all, wearing of a helmet is benifficial to most, when said head hits pavement. It just is... Now the "risk" of said head hitting the pavement is a different debate, as is how helpful the helmet actually is...

An ER doctor who lives near me has this opinion.

An ER doc who is against bike helmet laws? | Musings of a medical heretic

...jeez, digger, the guy's nickname is "bighead", as in Chris "Bighead" Milburn. How do you think it got that way ?

He was born that way. He's a nice guy. All those ER docs have a bit of an ego.

Yeah, and if your nickname is "bighead" then you are not allowed to state any opinion, and internet pundits will certainly discount it with extreme prejudice and malice. On the other hand, reading the Dr's opinion piece, there really nothing new or original there that has not been hashed and rehashed here.

Thank you for this post. It does provide some perspective.

John

Here is a photo of the cover of the City of Corvallis' Bicycle Ordinance & Handbook from about 1971. I think this is where a lot of people who post against helmets want us to go. There is only one problem with this, and that is that when you look at the number of bicycle fatalities during that time, they are higher in the USA than today. But look at where other countries are in their fatalities. It is not that they wear or don't wear helmets, but that the bicycling infrastructure is so different that their fatality rates are lower.
(From the Bicycling and Walking in the United States, 2012 Benchmarking Report.)

John

I am not sure who these anti-helmet people who post here are, I have seen few truly anti-helmet posts. As far as "where they want us to go" do you mean somebody wants us all to go to Corvallis? I've not seen that suggestion in this forum. Or are you referring to a obviously posed publicity shot for a publication? Looks fine to me, no traffic, family bicycle outing Hard to believe you take issue with that, but I guess you find it inappropriate somehow.

And the graphic clearly shows that helmet use is not a solution to fatalities. and so**********

My observation is that helmets are useful in some (few) relatively minor accidents, if the cost of a helmet makes sense to an individual thats fine, but if not thats fine too. But then I am not a coldly logical as some.

since it turned into a 'us vs them' thing ima jump the bandwagon for fun and giggles too

pro helmet wants this:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1QBsQvgWmP...0/IMAG0194.jpg

anti-helmets want this:
http://www.refdag.nl/polopoly_fs/bij...3511139873.jpg

Where in the NL did you or some other photographer ever find so many people wearing helmets? As recently as my last visit 3 years ago, I can't recall seeing more than one or two in an entire day. Nor all the bike specific gaudy colored clothing. Where was this photo taken? England perhaps?

Howsteepisit,

I was referring to the time period, not the place. Being from Eugene, I think there are only a few times you would go to Corvallis, and that is when the Ducks are there! ;)

This isn't an "us against them" situation. It is an awareness that we are actually getting somewhat better from a fatality standpoint in the USA, in part due to helmet usage. I could have been one of those statistics some years ago now, with either a SDI (serious disabling injury) or fatal results from a bicycle accident. Either way, it would have ended my bicycling and probably my career. You can check back if you want specifics on the previous threads.

Part of it is awareness that infrastructure is important. Those in the photo above who were riding in Europe were riding on bikeways that were separated from the traffic, and crossing at a bike crossing point from what I can see. This is an important part of that equation--getting the infrastructure. Here in Beaverton, Oregon we have Bike Beaverton A Guide to Bike Routes maps, which we are currently redoing. They show bike routes with bike lanes, lower traffic through streets, moderate traffic through streets, high traffic through streets, caution areas, multi-use paths, and also show which way is uphill. These are all color-coded. This is one example of how we can better educate bicycle users obout route selection. Those did not exist in the 1970s.

As for helmets during a bicycle event, here's the Portland, Oregon Bridge Pedal 2005.

John

You're very welcome. And yet I still maintain that in the USA, helmets are a net detriment to cycling safety.

Well, no. I mean, pro-helmet folks may indeed want a world where every cyclist wears a helmet every time, but the "anti-helmet" crowd mostly just wants to be left alone.

So I respectfully submit my own version of your post:

Pro-helmet:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=371344

Anti-helmet:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=371345

indeed england

i like the helmet free picture more

:lol: good one

I figured England would be the likely suspect for helmet wear in Europe.

I too prefer a cycling environment without all the fear driven drama.

Pictures below taken while waiting through a few traffic light cycles while standing at a corner in Gouda.

I thought I'd capture this one before you change it...there is nothing respectful about this at all. It appears from the way you express yourself that you have never served in the military of the USA. Therefore, you really don't know what it is that you are implying; you have no concept of who Hitler was, and what he is a symbol of. I find it very repugnant and insulting.

John

I-Like-To-Bike,

I'd trade the bicycling infrastructure that is present in Gouda, The Netherlands for a helmet if I could. Instead, I must cope with a culture in the USA which promotes auto-mobility and crazy driving behavior. Since I am 68, I probably would still use a helmet when on my upright bikes, but with the recumbent and that infrastructure, a helmet would be less needed. I went to Google Maps to see where Gouda was, and got an interesting street view.

John

Oh come on! That's funny! And it does drive home a pretty good point.

But who is the other dude? John Locke or what?

You can't recognize Thomas Jefferson? I really hope you are not American or maybe you are trolling.

Nope, not an american. European. I have only a glacing interest with 'murrican history (even though you don't even have castles) but I don't know the faces of most of the notable dudes.

Well, Thomas Jefferson should be taken to represent classical small-state liberalism much like Locke.

Maybe for you americans. For Europe small state liberalism is a niche political ideal since we have perfected the "socialism" fox news demonizes so readily.

Jefferson was a notable historical character no doubt about that and the name should ring a bell with anyone. However Locke is also a notable philosopher (one of my favorites).

You should not however assume knowledge about the american history on my continent since for us it's just not that relevant. We have so much of our own stuff. Like you could do a life's work with just how the two legal systems split and are so different today even though both (civil law, better, common law, worse) have the exact same heritage. And that's just law. there's a thousand different specialities so you can imagine how busy we are.

oh how I wish I was able to post P&R

I was assuming the opposite which was why I tried to clarify what Six jours intended. He might have meant that both pro and anti- helmet people hate the British.