Proper lane positioning
11-01-11, 09:53 PM
#26
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11-02-11, 04:36 PM
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Agreed, and I have to laugh at those members here who think that riding that way is rude or inconsiderate, or not needed. I have to wonder if they actually live and ride in the "real world" or if they live and ride in some sort of fantasy world where cyclists are never harassed and they have well maintained bicycle infrastructure.
I think I jinxed myself, though -- got buzzed 3x TODAY! Oh, sailors would have blushed to hear me.......
11-02-11, 10:24 PM
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11-03-11, 10:52 AM
#29
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ride only as far right as is safe.
in shareable lanes, that is not forcing lane changes to overtake. this 3-4 feet 'sweet spot' ISN'T "the left tire track".
the study doesn't support a far left of the lane anyway. The study distinctly mentioned how the passing became closer and more likely to be abrupt or hazardous in some manner.
Some of you seem to be purporting you are unable to handle -are unwilling to accept - legal, partial lane changes to pass. Even when safely positioned in the, say, right tire track of a road to share the road? Passing movements occur regularly on every ride on even a moderate traffic road and likely hundreds of times of times a week for the average rider, if not thousands a week for us busy urban riders...
Claims of riding to prevent partial lane changes to pass in all road conditions less than 14 feet wide is where the rhetoric starts to ring hollow. It just doesn't stand up to reality, much less the metric of reasonable, safe road use by a bicyclist.
Personally,I'm quite assertive in my road position, but my road use is much more moderate -it could even be characterized as "reasonable" - than these claims of unsharing lane use.
Where do some of you guys ride, anyway? It sounds like fantasy baseball camp or something.
in shareable lanes, that is not forcing lane changes to overtake. this 3-4 feet 'sweet spot' ISN'T "the left tire track".
the study doesn't support a far left of the lane anyway. The study distinctly mentioned how the passing became closer and more likely to be abrupt or hazardous in some manner. Some of you seem to be purporting you are unable to handle -are unwilling to accept - legal, partial lane changes to pass. Even when safely positioned in the, say, right tire track of a road to share the road? Passing movements occur regularly on every ride on even a moderate traffic road and likely hundreds of times of times a week for the average rider, if not thousands a week for us busy urban riders...
Claims of riding to prevent partial lane changes to pass in all road conditions less than 14 feet wide is where the rhetoric starts to ring hollow. It just doesn't stand up to reality, much less the metric of reasonable, safe road use by a bicyclist.
Personally,I'm quite assertive in my road position, but my road use is much more moderate -it could even be characterized as "reasonable" - than these claims of unsharing lane use.
Where do some of you guys ride, anyway? It sounds like fantasy baseball camp or something.
Last edited by Bekologist; 11-03-11 at 11:05 AM.
11-03-11, 12:11 PM
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Reading the 'share the lane' references(positive or negative) in some of the posts, got me to wondering why does society at large(and some cyclists), expect a cyclist to 'share the lane', instead of passing like passing another 'motorized' vehicle. Not as in, one vehicle in front of another. But as in, the motorist being evenly positioned with the cyclist at the same physical point. This just leads to the excuse by motorists of, 'I never saw her/him', when they pass to close and/or, have drifted towards the curb, injuring/killing the cyclist.
Last edited by Chris516; 11-03-11 at 12:24 PM.
11-03-11, 12:25 PM
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Reading the 'share the lane' references(positive or negative) in some of the posts, got me to wondering why does society at large, expect a cyclist to 'share the lane', instead of passing like passing another 'motorized' vehicle. It just astounds me, that the driving public at large(and some cyclists) expects the lane to be 'shared'. Not as in, one vehicle in front of another. But as in, the motorist being evenly positioned with the cyclist at the same physical point. This just leads to the excuse by motorists of, 'I never saw her/him', when they have drifted towards the curb, and injuring/killing the cyclist.
If society at large actually supported cycling by the general public, this message would be conveyed to all motorists for all situations involving cyclists:
11-03-11, 01:02 PM
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Society at large actually expects cyclists to just get out of the way. Share the road or share the lane is just a feeble slogan to try to convince cyclists that society at large actually cares about cyclists.
If society at large actually supported cycling by the general public, this message would be conveyed to all motorists for all situations involving cyclists:
If society at large actually supported cycling by the general public, this message would be conveyed to all motorists for all situations involving cyclists:
Great addendum!
11-03-11, 01:59 PM
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If the lane is sufficiently wide, i.e., more than 14 feet from the painted line to the nearer of the curb or the door zone, I'll ride right. Otherwise, I'm taking the lane. If I'm taking the lane, I make it clear to motorists that I'm taking the whole lane. There is nothing unreasonable about that. If it's safe for them to make a partial lane change and pass, it is nearly always safe for them to make a full lane change to pass.
There is a reason I use 14 feet as the critical width to decide whether or not to ride right, and it is most certainly reality based.
Since the minimum clearance for passing a bicyclist is 3 feet … and the total width of larger motor vehicles (with extending mirrors) is commonly 8 feet or more, an outside traffic lane with less than 14 feet of width for travel is commonly not wide enough to accommodate passing motor traffic within the lane. Where restricted conditions prevent inclusion of bicycle lanes or paved shoulders on urban roadways, Florida Department of Transportation engineering guidance recommends an outside lane width of 14 feet to “allow passenger cars to safely pass bicyclists within a single lane,” i.e., without the need for passing motor vehicles to change lanes …. Source
11-03-11, 02:58 PM
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riding 10 feet from the curb in a 12 foot lane to force cars to fully change lanes to pass would be considered unreasonable by most people, bicyclists included, and hardly necessary to "maximize predictability of motorists" forcing them to fully change lanes to pass.
The study (in Florida, nonetheless) found riding too far to the left increased the unpredictability of motorists.
The study (in Florida, nonetheless) found riding too far to the left increased the unpredictability of motorists.
11-03-11, 03:40 PM
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riding 10 feet from the curb in a 12 foot lane to force cars to fully change lanes to pass would be considered unreasonable by most people, bicyclists included, and hardly necessary to "maximize predictability of motorists" forcing them to fully change lanes to pass.
The study (in Florida, nonetheless) found riding too far to the left increased the unpredictability of motorists.
The study (in Florida, nonetheless) found riding too far to the left increased the unpredictability of motorists.
11-03-11, 03:42 PM
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There is nothing wrong with positioning oneself in the lane in a manner that minimizes risk while being passed. Risk is quantified with variance. To minimize risk, one must minimize variance (i.e., standard deviation of passing clearance must be minimized). To put it another way, there is nothing wrong with positioning oneself in the lane so that the behavior of passing motorists is most predictable. Partial lane changes to pass are not, in and of themselves, anything to worry about (although they are virtually never necessary). When make only a partial lane change and fail to leave safe clearance between their vehicle and the cyclist they're passing, it becomes a problem, one that is not uncommon. (I see it a few times per week when I ride in the right tire track.)
If the lane is sufficiently wide, i.e., more than 14 feet from the painted line to the nearer of the curb or the door zone, I'll ride right. Otherwise, I'm taking the lane. If I'm taking the lane, I make it clear to motorists that I'm taking the whole lane. There is nothing unreasonable about that. If it's safe for them to make a partial lane change and pass, it is nearly always safe for them to make a full lane change to pass.
There is a reason I use 14 feet as the critical width to decide whether or not to ride right, and it is most certainly reality based.
If the lane is sufficiently wide, i.e., more than 14 feet from the painted line to the nearer of the curb or the door zone, I'll ride right. Otherwise, I'm taking the lane. If I'm taking the lane, I make it clear to motorists that I'm taking the whole lane. There is nothing unreasonable about that. If it's safe for them to make a partial lane change and pass, it is nearly always safe for them to make a full lane change to pass.
There is a reason I use 14 feet as the critical width to decide whether or not to ride right, and it is most certainly reality based.
Since the minimum clearance for passing a bicyclist is 3 feet … and the total width of larger motor vehicles (with extending mirrors) is commonly 8 feet or more, an outside traffic lane with less than 14 feet of width for travel is commonly not wide enough to accommodate passing motor traffic within the lane. Where restricted conditions prevent inclusion of bicycle lanes or paved shoulders on urban roadways, Florida Department of Transportation engineering guidance recommends an outside lane width of 14 feet to “allow passenger cars to safely pass bicyclists within a single lane,” i.e., without the need for passing motor vehicles to change lanes …. Source
11-03-11, 04:52 PM
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Which is why as I've said before what should be done is to measure 3 - 4 feet from the right side of the road then stripe a bike lane. If there is either on street parking or there is already a shoulder on the road then measure 3 - 4 feet from either the on street parking or the shoulder and then add a bike lane.
And for states like Florida with a mandatory bike lane use law measure 3' from the left most edge of the bike lane and stripe a "no mans" zone to force motorists to give cyclists 3' when passing.
Of course, I know that that will never happen. But in my opinion that is how it should be done, IF we're to have bicycle infrastructure forced on us.
And for states like Florida with a mandatory bike lane use law measure 3' from the left most edge of the bike lane and stripe a "no mans" zone to force motorists to give cyclists 3' when passing.
Of course, I know that that will never happen. But in my opinion that is how it should be done, IF we're to have bicycle infrastructure forced on us.
11-03-11, 05:31 PM
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When a cyclist's position in the lane encourages motorists to completely exit the lane to pass, that does indeed increase predictability compared to lane positions that allow motorists to share the lane or partially exit the lane when passing.
The study (in Florida, nonetheless) found riding too far to the left increased the unpredictability of motorists.
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