I-Like-To-Bike

How, exactly, do you "let them know" anything, when approaching high speed motorists ignore your presence and/or give no indication that they intend to do what you expect them to do. i.e. get in the passing lane and pass in a safe mannerr?

I-Like-To-Bike

This isn't a case of decrepit ears unable to pick up subtle audio signals on the road like the young whipper snappers.
It is a case of an experienced cyclist able to detect a cyclist fooling himself into thinking limited physical abilities are enhanced by a firm belief in the magical power of his "Take the Lane" agenda to affect the behavior of less than rational and/or incompetent motorists who may be approaching from the rear at high speed.

genec

Fair enough...

Although in my younger days I swear I could feel the cars approaching... and once had a long conversation about this with a legally blind friend of mine that also biked...

I seem to have lost that particular sensitivity however.

noisebeam

The important thing is that my mirror helps me get places quicker.

Chris516

I am 45(5/16/1967). I am not some young ignorant whipper snapper. Being bold has nothing to do with it. It has to do with asserting a cyclist's right to be on the road. Instead of acquiescing to the 'pecking order' of giving up one's rights to larger vehicles.

I make it clear, that I will not be pushed to the curb, and that if they want to pass me, they are going to have to do it in the passing lane. Unless I momentarily pull on to a shoulder to wave the traffic by. The only thing I expect of motorists', is to be idiots. I don't expect them to give me room, or follow the law.

You may ride in fear of the traffic, but I don't. I am absolute about my lane position. I was on a 40mph road earlier today, on two occasions. I had to stop by one pharmacy to check on some medication. Then I had to go to another drug store to get an idea on printable labels. Both times, I did not surrender the lane either time.

Chris516

How so? I am not agreeing, or disagreeing. Just puzzled.

njkayaker

You are digging awfully deep to find reasons not to use a mirror! This "reason" is ridiculous!

How fast are you going?

Cyclists must rely on following drivers seeing them and passing them safely. Regardless of where the cyclist is on the roadway. If a driver doesn't see you in a given situation, there isn't much you can do to change that. If a driver doesn't see you, you are (obviously) going to be safer if you are not in the path of the vehicle (on the shoulder or, less safely, at the right of the lane).

While there are times that taking the lane is appropriate (and safer), it doesn't have a magical effect on distracted drivers.

This is a common technique/experience issue. It's likely because you were looking at the mirror rather than the image the mirror is reflecting.

Daves_Not_Here

Couple of thoughts and question for a moderator:

1. I find that "taking the lane" and using a mirror compliment each other, particularly when doing so involves slowing a motorist. If I'm going to be buzzed or worse, I'd like to know before it happens. I find it hard to believe that someone without a mirror can know he is about to be passed at 3 inches versus 3 feet. "I turn my head and look at every car before it passes me", or "my calibrated ears have exceptional directional sensitivity"?

2. Is it a coincidence that the A&S posters who most adamently espouse an "I don't need a mirror" attitude also most frequently report experiencing drama and close-calls with motorists (or JAM's, asshats, cagers, jerks, etc.)?

Moderator question (and for others as well) -- this is turning into the helmet thread and I created the "do you use a mirror" poll -- would it be worth combining the two and/or turning this thread into a sticky?

10 Wheels

Mirrors or helmets....same thing.

njkayaker

Impressive. It would last about 5 minutes where I ride!

njkayaker

Interesting. People that I ride with who use mirrors appear to find them useful even on roads without much traffic.

njkayaker

If you can detect every close pass, you are looking at the mirror too much. You must only ride on roads with shoulders (to be able to always escape close passes). While mirrors can be useful, you are still mostly relying on drivers seeing you and passing with enough room.

I-Like-To-Bike

What is so special about where you ride? The pictured mirror has been on thatbbike for over 10 years of daily commuting in both Germany and thew U.s.

genec

Yup I was that way at 45 too... has your eyesight started degrading yet?

Around here they would run you over for challenging that "pecking order."

https://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/...n-over-by-suv/

genec

Wow, 7 years back luck for breaking a helmet?

njkayaker

Many of the roads I ride on don't have shoulders. There are enough passes that are close enough that such a mirror would increase my risk. Note that you are quite free to use it but it isn't something that is going to work for everybody.

njkayaker

I'd guess that mirror use is about 30-50% in my club.

I-Like-To-Bike

Enough cars are passing within inches of your left side on shoulderless roads? At highway speeds? That does sound risky. Maybe you need to borrow some Apha Dog's ears and positive thinking techniques to reduce that risk.

njkayaker

There is less restricted view on a bike-mounted mirror than you think (if you use proper technique). Some people have problems with using head-mounted mirrors.

njkayaker

Yes, "enough cars" (a number > 0) pass within inches of my left shoulder.

Heck, sometimes, other cyclists are riding that close!

"Highway speeds"? Clipping that mirror at any speed would be a problem!

I was exaggerating a bit but I do get passes within what your mirror juts out into. Any number of such passes (they don't have to be frequent) would preclude such a set up as yours.

(Such a mirror would also make transporting my bike more difficult as well.)

Note that I'm not suggesting/implying that your set-up doesn't work for you. But, clearly, it might not work for everybody. And, a fair number of people manage to ride quite fine without mirrors.

noisebeam

For starters I have to pedal harder to make up for the extra wind resistance of the mirror, but since that resistance is near negligible and my extra pedaling is not, I end up moving faster.

The other reasons I have stated in this and other mirror discussions.

njkayaker

While I think that mirrors are useful, it's odd that people are implying that they can entire replace other senses. (If you can't use other senses, there's not much alternative.)

Some mirror users may actually rely on the mirror too much. It takes some practice/experience to use any detection method.

genec

Replace, no, enhance yes. Hearing gets a bit fuzzy, then you rely on sight more... it IS as simple as that. We all do that... when one or more sense is degraded, we rely more on the remaining senses. Now I can smell cars miles away... but I can only tell you if they are gas or diesel; I can't tell you how many.

Daves_Not_Here

I promise I'm not being intentionally argumentative. You bring up important points that bear discussion:

Actually, my goal is not to detect, but to prevent close passes. And I do see every pass -- I have a glasses-mounted mirror that's near to the center of field of view of my left eye. I don't even have to move my eyeball. And given that I'm being passed by tons of speeding metal that can instantly kill or maim me, how can I be looking at it "too much". At that instant, what could possibly be more important to notice?

Shoulder or no shoulder, if a collision in imminent, I'm bailing out to the right, obstacles notwithstanding. Plus, "taking the lane" builds in an escape buffer to the right.

Not to quibble with semantics, but I don't "rely" on the drivers seeing me and passing with enough room, I am "riding in such a way that they are more likely" to see me and pass with enough room; however, if it doesn't appear they will pass with enough room, I have the option of bailing out.

Bottom line -- I just can't rely on others to be responsible for my safety. I need to own that responsibility, and part of that ownership is knowing what's going on.

mr,grumpy 

11 pages about mirrors? I have one. It's OK. The only times that I have had o randomly swerve into traffic that could run me over from behind was because something was unfolding in front of me RIGHT NOW and there was not time to be checking mirrors and such!