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Yet another moment of madness. . .

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Yet another moment of madness. . .

Old 05-15-12, 01:42 PM
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Yet another moment of madness. . .

Read it and weep.

======================

Last week, a female driver on Scott Street allegedly used her vehicle to take a swipe at a cyclist heading northbound on the Wiggle. The cyclist, also a woman, was entering the bike lane on Scott near Fell Street around 9:15 a.m. last Tuesday, when she had to swerve to dodge the vehicle. According to a police report from Park Station, when the cyclist rode by the vehicle, she had a few words for the driver, which launched a full-on driver-vs-biker rage episode.



https://sfist.com/2012/05/15/car-on-b...ikes_again.php

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Old 05-15-12, 02:37 PM
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This is why we need a program that prevents unlicensed people from owning cars. All too often, when someone goes way beyond the pale and uses a motor vehicle as a weapon, that individual is found to not have a valid license. Considering how difficult it is to lose one's driver's license, it shouldn't be a big surprise that the folks who do manage to get suspended are totally defective people.
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Old 05-15-12, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
This is why we need a program that prevents unlicensed people from owning cars. All too often, when someone goes way beyond the pale and uses a motor vehicle as a weapon, that individual is found to not have a valid license. Considering how difficult it is to lose one's driver's license, it shouldn't be a big surprise that the folks who do manage to get suspended are totally defective people.
Oh. So, what if said unlicensed person drives a car that they don't own (family or friend's car)?
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Old 05-15-12, 02:45 PM
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sfist.com - hmm... I've spent a fair amount of time poking around that site. It seems they take a very anti-cyclist stance, and the comments on any cycling-related article reflect the target demographic (as evidenced in the article linked above).
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Old 05-15-12, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
This is why we need a program that prevents unlicensed people from owning cars.
There's no reason why a vehicle owner should be licensed. Licenses are for driving, not owning. Should elderly Mom not be permitted to own a car in which she's driven by, e.g., an attendant or other caregiver? How would Hertz, a corporation, obtain a driver's license?

OTOH, we should certainly impound the cars driven by unlicensed drivers but, in California, we can't do that, anymore, in the settings in which most of them are discovered:

Starting Jan. 1, a new law will take effect in California, meaning that police officers can no longer impound a car at sobriety checkpoints if the driver's only offense is driving without a license, according to The Associated Press. Under the old law, unlicensed drivers' cars could be impounded for 30 days and charged thousands of dollars in fees. A person driving without a license will now be able to have a licensed driver take his or her car home.


The controversial law was the subject of an investigation by the Investigative Reporting Program at the University of California, Berkeley that aired on NewsHour in February 2010. The investigation found that impounds brought in over $40 million in revenue from fees and auctions for local governments and towing companies in 2009 alone. For every arrest for driving under intoxication at the sobriety checkpoints, there were as many as 60 cars seized from unlicensed drivers. The reporting program's director is special correspondent Lowell Bergman, who narrated this report last year:


The law hit especially hard on undocumented immigrants, who can not legally obtain a license in California, according to Assemblyman Gil Cedillo, who wrote the legislation that takes effect on Sunday.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...d-drivers.html
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Old 05-15-12, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadheadSF View Post
sfist.com - hmm... I've spent a fair amount of time poking around that site. It seems they take a very anti-cyclist stance, and the comments on any cycling-related article reflect the target demographic (as evidenced in the article linked above).
Well, without judging the general stance of SFist, this article certainly doesn't have a particularly anti-cyclist tone, and the comments I scanned seem to represent a range of attitudes. What point were you making?
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Old 05-15-12, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadheadSF View Post
Oh. So, what if said unlicensed person drives a car that they don't own (family or friend's car)?
Seize the car no matter what. Fine the owner heavily when they show up to get their "precious." Until this is done, people without licenses will beg borrow or steal. (the latter which is a criminal offense that already has repercussions).
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Old 05-15-12, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
There's no reason why a vehicle owner should be licensed. Licenses are for driving, not owning. Should elderly Mom not be permitted to own a car in which she's driven by, e.g., an attendant or other caregiver? How would Hertz, a corporation, obtain a driver's license?

OTOH, we should certainly impound the cars driven by unlicensed drivers but, in California, we can't do that, anymore, in the settings in which most of them are discovered:



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...d-drivers.html
Corporations are people too... they have to get some sort of permit to rent cars. AND they DO check your license when you rent from them.
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Old 05-15-12, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadheadSF View Post
sfist.com - hmm... I've spent a fair amount of time poking around that site. It seems they take a very anti-cyclist stance, and the comments on any cycling-related article reflect the target demographic (as evidenced in the article linked above).
Any article related to cycling on almost any website brings out the most crazy people. Some of the worst comments I've ever seen on the internet.
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Old 05-15-12, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Corporations are people too... they have to get some sort of permit to rent cars. AND they DO check your license when you rent from them.
Did you read what I wrote, genec? We were talking about driver's licenses, which, quite obviously, can only be issued to natural persons.
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Old 05-15-12, 04:00 PM
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A: Cyclist was stupid. Driver was insane. Take plates, description-REPORT

Cyclist could well have been new pine box inhabitant.

Life is more fun when cells are alive.

7 cents, please.
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Old 05-15-12, 04:11 PM
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+1, Rollfast.
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Old 05-15-12, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kalliergo View Post
Did you read what I wrote, genec? We were talking about driver's licenses, which, quite obviously, can only be issued to natural persons.
Yeah I sarcastically wrote that corporations are people.

Look the bottom line is that there should be some traceable means by which a person driving a car has shown competence to do so (and certainly there are gaping holes in our current system).

The elderly mom can get an affidavit to attest that the vehicle will be driven by a licensed driver, the corporation is people (at least according to the current SCOTUS) and they too likely have some permit to hold cars for licensed drivers. The CA response is just plain stupid...

Bottom line, any car found being driven by an unlicensed driver should be impounded.
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Old 05-15-12, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Yeah I sarcastically wrote that corporations are people.
Oops. Missed the sarcasm. Easy to do online.

The CA response is just plain stupid...

Bottom line, any car found being driven by an unlicensed driver should be impounded.
Yes and yes. But it isn't happening here, where about a quarter of all accidents and a quarter of all crash fatalities are directly caused by such folks.

I'm afraid this is one of the realities that comes with having developed a built environment that is so "geared" toward driving that doing so is seen as necessary to life. We are very reluctant to effectively stop people from operating motor vehicles, really for almost any reason.
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Old 05-15-12, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
This is why we need a program that prevents unlicensed people from owning cars. All too often, when someone goes way beyond the pale and uses a motor vehicle as a weapon, that individual is found to not have a valid license. Considering how difficult it is to lose one's driver's license, it shouldn't be a big surprise that the folks who do manage to get suspended are totally defective people.
That sounds very much like my thread:

Just an idea...

When legally purchasing a gun in the U.S., you have to go through a background check. I believe that it takes about 2 weeks before you can pick up the weapon, presuming you are clear to do so.

Why not do that with cars? Make the buyer pay for a background check (pays for the administration, and puts something into a insurance fund for victims of uninsured/under-insured drivers). The results of the check are put into a national directory that is only good for say..... X months.

DUI's and other serious driving incidents (suspended licences, reckless driving, etc) red flag the driver (voiding the remainder of X months). Legal forfeiture of driving privileges will automatically be posted. Attempts to circumvent the system result in longer (perhaps permanent) loss of driving privileges.

Make sure that there are clear methods to appeal the red flag (for those victims of ID theft).
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Old 05-16-12, 03:25 AM
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Impound? Why not crush the car? Exceptions to be made where car stolen/borrowed without permission, etc., but takes driver off the road. If tendency to be multiple offender, then cost will soon deter.
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Old 05-16-12, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
....... Take plates, description-REPORT

From personal experience, even that can set off a motorist into a screaming tirade, especially if the motorist sees you physically recording their license numbers, and I purchased video cams shortly after this one particular incident.
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Old 05-16-12, 12:44 PM
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While I agree that taking a plate number and reporting would have been the safer option, it's almost certain that there would have been no repercussions if that's what happened. Getting the driver arrested and charged is a bonus and given that the cyclist was not killed or permanently injured/maimed it's a reasonably promising outcome but it would be hard to say that it's worth the risk.

It's really just too bad that someone has to actually get hurt in order to get dangerous people dealt with properly.
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Old 05-16-12, 02:43 PM
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If you are going to confront the JAMs, at least be ready to defend yourself. Do not let them beat on you.
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Old 05-16-12, 09:16 PM
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There is no way you can prevent a person from driving a car illegally. All the laws in the world will not stop a determined habitual offender, except actual prison time.
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Old 05-16-12, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
This is why we need a program that prevents unlicensed people from owning cars. All too often, when someone goes way beyond the pale and uses a motor vehicle as a weapon, that individual is found to not have a valid license. Considering how difficult it is to lose one's driver's license, it shouldn't be a big surprise that the folks who do manage to get suspended are totally defective people.
Agreed, but I am sure that there will be those here who will say that that will cause some sort of "burden" for people and/or business such as car rentals.

In this limited regard businesses should have some other form of licensing.

For individuals if they can't drive really what is the purpose of owning a car? Yes, I can understand that a person who bought their first car in 1964 and still has it and it is still in excellent shape would want to hold on it to long after they're no longer able to drive. But really how many people still own the car that they were the first owner of?
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Old 05-16-12, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadheadSF View Post
Oh. So, what if said unlicensed person drives a car that they don't own (family or friend's car)?
It gets impounded, and if the driver is a repeat offender the car is sold at auction. If one is going to loan their car (a somewhat expensive piece of property) they'd better make damn sure that the person that they're loaning it to is a licensed and insured driver. Or risk loosing it, either temporarily to having it impounded, or risk having it sold at auction.
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Old 05-16-12, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Yeah I sarcastically wrote that corporations are people.

Look the bottom line is that there should be some traceable means by which a person driving a car has shown competence to do so (and certainly there are gaping holes in our current system).

The elderly mom can get an affidavit to attest that the vehicle will be driven by a licensed driver, the corporation is people (at least according to the current SCOTUS) and they too likely have some permit to hold cars for licensed drivers. The CA response is just plain stupid...

Bottom line, any car found being driven by an unlicensed driver should be impounded.
Agreed, 110% and if the driver is found to be a repeat offender and/or if the owner is also a repeat offender in allowing people who don't have a valid license then sell the car at auction.
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Old 05-16-12, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by atbman View Post
Impound? Why not crush the car? Exceptions to be made where car stolen/borrowed without permission, etc., but takes driver off the road. If tendency to be multiple offender, then cost will soon deter.
And both televise it AND make the driver and/or owner pay the costs to crush it. As well as impound fees for storing it before it gets crushed.
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Old 05-16-12, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
And both televise it AND make the driver and/or owner pay the costs to crush it. As well as impound fees for storing it before it gets crushed.
I like it. Probably never happen, but we can dream.
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