Yet another moment of madness. . .
05-15-12, 01:42 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 708
Bikes: Trek Valencia+, Dutch cargo bike, Karate Monkey, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yet another moment of madness. . .
Read it and weep.
======================
Last week, a female driver on Scott Street allegedly used her vehicle to take a swipe at a cyclist heading northbound on the Wiggle. The cyclist, also a woman, was entering the bike lane on Scott near Fell Street around 9:15 a.m. last Tuesday, when she had to swerve to dodge the vehicle. According to a police report from Park Station, when the cyclist rode by the vehicle, she had a few words for the driver, which launched a full-on driver-vs-biker rage episode.
https://sfist.com/2012/05/15/car-on-b...ikes_again.php
======================
Last week, a female driver on Scott Street allegedly used her vehicle to take a swipe at a cyclist heading northbound on the Wiggle. The cyclist, also a woman, was entering the bike lane on Scott near Fell Street around 9:15 a.m. last Tuesday, when she had to swerve to dodge the vehicle. According to a police report from Park Station, when the cyclist rode by the vehicle, she had a few words for the driver, which launched a full-on driver-vs-biker rage episode.
https://sfist.com/2012/05/15/car-on-b...ikes_again.php
Last edited by CbadRider; 05-17-12 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Copyright violation
05-15-12, 02:37 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
8 Posts
This is why we need a program that prevents unlicensed people from owning cars. All too often, when someone goes way beyond the pale and uses a motor vehicle as a weapon, that individual is found to not have a valid license. Considering how difficult it is to lose one's driver's license, it shouldn't be a big surprise that the folks who do manage to get suspended are totally defective people.
05-15-12, 02:42 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 230
Bikes: Giant Defy Advanced 3, Trek 520
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This is why we need a program that prevents unlicensed people from owning cars. All too often, when someone goes way beyond the pale and uses a motor vehicle as a weapon, that individual is found to not have a valid license. Considering how difficult it is to lose one's driver's license, it shouldn't be a big surprise that the folks who do manage to get suspended are totally defective people.
05-15-12, 02:45 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 230
Bikes: Giant Defy Advanced 3, Trek 520
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
sfist.com - hmm... I've spent a fair amount of time poking around that site. It seems they take a very anti-cyclist stance, and the comments on any cycling-related article reflect the target demographic (as evidenced in the article linked above).
05-15-12, 02:53 PM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 708
Bikes: Trek Valencia+, Dutch cargo bike, Karate Monkey, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
OTOH, we should certainly impound the cars driven by unlicensed drivers but, in California, we can't do that, anymore, in the settings in which most of them are discovered:
Starting Jan. 1, a new law will take effect in California, meaning that police officers can no longer impound a car at sobriety checkpoints if the driver's only offense is driving without a license, according to The Associated Press. Under the old law, unlicensed drivers' cars could be impounded for 30 days and charged thousands of dollars in fees. A person driving without a license will now be able to have a licensed driver take his or her car home.
The controversial law was the subject of an investigation by the Investigative Reporting Program at the University of California, Berkeley that aired on NewsHour in February 2010. The investigation found that impounds brought in over $40 million in revenue from fees and auctions for local governments and towing companies in 2009 alone. For every arrest for driving under intoxication at the sobriety checkpoints, there were as many as 60 cars seized from unlicensed drivers. The reporting program's director is special correspondent Lowell Bergman, who narrated this report last year:
The law hit especially hard on undocumented immigrants, who can not legally obtain a license in California, according to Assemblyman Gil Cedillo, who wrote the legislation that takes effect on Sunday.
The controversial law was the subject of an investigation by the Investigative Reporting Program at the University of California, Berkeley that aired on NewsHour in February 2010. The investigation found that impounds brought in over $40 million in revenue from fees and auctions for local governments and towing companies in 2009 alone. For every arrest for driving under intoxication at the sobriety checkpoints, there were as many as 60 cars seized from unlicensed drivers. The reporting program's director is special correspondent Lowell Bergman, who narrated this report last year:
The law hit especially hard on undocumented immigrants, who can not legally obtain a license in California, according to Assemblyman Gil Cedillo, who wrote the legislation that takes effect on Sunday.
__________________
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
05-15-12, 02:59 PM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 708
Bikes: Trek Valencia+, Dutch cargo bike, Karate Monkey, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Well, without judging the general stance of SFist, this article certainly doesn't have a particularly anti-cyclist tone, and the comments I scanned seem to represent a range of attitudes. What point were you making?
__________________
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
05-15-12, 03:16 PM
#7
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Seize the car no matter what. Fine the owner heavily when they show up to get their "precious." Until this is done, people without licenses will beg borrow or steal. (the latter which is a criminal offense that already has repercussions).
05-15-12, 03:18 PM
#8
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
There's no reason why a vehicle owner should be licensed. Licenses are for driving, not owning. Should elderly Mom not be permitted to own a car in which she's driven by, e.g., an attendant or other caregiver? How would Hertz, a corporation, obtain a driver's license?
OTOH, we should certainly impound the cars driven by unlicensed drivers but, in California, we can't do that, anymore, in the settings in which most of them are discovered:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...d-drivers.html
OTOH, we should certainly impound the cars driven by unlicensed drivers but, in California, we can't do that, anymore, in the settings in which most of them are discovered:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...d-drivers.html
05-15-12, 03:21 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 600
Bikes: All-City Space Horse!
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Any article related to cycling on almost any website brings out the most crazy people. Some of the worst comments I've ever seen on the internet.
05-15-12, 03:30 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 708
Bikes: Trek Valencia+, Dutch cargo bike, Karate Monkey, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Did you read what I wrote, genec? We were talking about driver's licenses, which, quite obviously, can only be issued to natural persons.
__________________
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
05-15-12, 04:00 PM
#11
What happened?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927
Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
255 Posts
A: Cyclist was stupid. Driver was insane. Take plates, description-REPORT
Cyclist could well have been new pine box inhabitant.
Life is more fun when cells are alive.
7 cents, please.
Cyclist could well have been new pine box inhabitant.
Life is more fun when cells are alive.
7 cents, please.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
05-15-12, 04:11 PM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 708
Bikes: Trek Valencia+, Dutch cargo bike, Karate Monkey, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
+1, Rollfast.
__________________
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
05-15-12, 04:16 PM
#13
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Look the bottom line is that there should be some traceable means by which a person driving a car has shown competence to do so (and certainly there are gaping holes in our current system).
The elderly mom can get an affidavit to attest that the vehicle will be driven by a licensed driver, the corporation is people (at least according to the current SCOTUS) and they too likely have some permit to hold cars for licensed drivers. The CA response is just plain stupid...
Bottom line, any car found being driven by an unlicensed driver should be impounded.
05-15-12, 04:59 PM
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 708
Bikes: Trek Valencia+, Dutch cargo bike, Karate Monkey, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Oops. Missed the sarcasm. Easy to do online.
Yes and yes. But it isn't happening here, where about a quarter of all accidents and a quarter of all crash fatalities are directly caused by such folks.
I'm afraid this is one of the realities that comes with having developed a built environment that is so "geared" toward driving that doing so is seen as necessary to life. We are very reluctant to effectively stop people from operating motor vehicles, really for almost any reason.
The CA response is just plain stupid...
Bottom line, any car found being driven by an unlicensed driver should be impounded.
Bottom line, any car found being driven by an unlicensed driver should be impounded.
I'm afraid this is one of the realities that comes with having developed a built environment that is so "geared" toward driving that doing so is seen as necessary to life. We are very reluctant to effectively stop people from operating motor vehicles, really for almost any reason.
__________________
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
05-15-12, 06:25 PM
#15
Commander, UFO Bike
This is why we need a program that prevents unlicensed people from owning cars. All too often, when someone goes way beyond the pale and uses a motor vehicle as a weapon, that individual is found to not have a valid license. Considering how difficult it is to lose one's driver's license, it shouldn't be a big surprise that the folks who do manage to get suspended are totally defective people.
Just an idea...
When legally purchasing a gun in the U.S., you have to go through a background check. I believe that it takes about 2 weeks before you can pick up the weapon, presuming you are clear to do so.
Why not do that with cars? Make the buyer pay for a background check (pays for the administration, and puts something into a insurance fund for victims of uninsured/under-insured drivers). The results of the check are put into a national directory that is only good for say..... X months.
DUI's and other serious driving incidents (suspended licences, reckless driving, etc) red flag the driver (voiding the remainder of X months). Legal forfeiture of driving privileges will automatically be posted. Attempts to circumvent the system result in longer (perhaps permanent) loss of driving privileges.
Make sure that there are clear methods to appeal the red flag (for those victims of ID theft).
When legally purchasing a gun in the U.S., you have to go through a background check. I believe that it takes about 2 weeks before you can pick up the weapon, presuming you are clear to do so.
Why not do that with cars? Make the buyer pay for a background check (pays for the administration, and puts something into a insurance fund for victims of uninsured/under-insured drivers). The results of the check are put into a national directory that is only good for say..... X months.
DUI's and other serious driving incidents (suspended licences, reckless driving, etc) red flag the driver (voiding the remainder of X months). Legal forfeiture of driving privileges will automatically be posted. Attempts to circumvent the system result in longer (perhaps permanent) loss of driving privileges.
Make sure that there are clear methods to appeal the red flag (for those victims of ID theft).
05-16-12, 03:25 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds UK
Posts: 2,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Impound? Why not crush the car? Exceptions to be made where car stolen/borrowed without permission, etc., but takes driver off the road. If tendency to be multiple offender, then cost will soon deter.
05-16-12, 07:43 AM
#17
Banned
From personal experience, even that can set off a motorist into a screaming tirade, especially if the motorist sees you physically recording their license numbers, and I purchased video cams shortly after this one particular incident.
05-16-12, 12:44 PM
#18
Señior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,749
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
While I agree that taking a plate number and reporting would have been the safer option, it's almost certain that there would have been no repercussions if that's what happened. Getting the driver arrested and charged is a bonus and given that the cyclist was not killed or permanently injured/maimed it's a reasonably promising outcome but it would be hard to say that it's worth the risk.
It's really just too bad that someone has to actually get hurt in order to get dangerous people dealt with properly.
It's really just too bad that someone has to actually get hurt in order to get dangerous people dealt with properly.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
05-16-12, 02:43 PM
#19
Cycle Year Round
If you are going to confront the JAMs, at least be ready to defend yourself. Do not let them beat on you.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
05-16-12, 09:16 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Monterey Bay area, California
Posts: 523
Bikes: Terratrike Tour, recumbent tadpole tricycle.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
2 Posts
There is no way you can prevent a person from driving a car illegally. All the laws in the world will not stop a determined habitual offender, except actual prison time.
__________________
What do you call a cyclist who sells potpourri on the road? A pedaling petal-peddler.
What do you call a cyclist who sells potpourri on the road? A pedaling petal-peddler.
05-16-12, 09:25 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
This is why we need a program that prevents unlicensed people from owning cars. All too often, when someone goes way beyond the pale and uses a motor vehicle as a weapon, that individual is found to not have a valid license. Considering how difficult it is to lose one's driver's license, it shouldn't be a big surprise that the folks who do manage to get suspended are totally defective people.
In this limited regard businesses should have some other form of licensing.
For individuals if they can't drive really what is the purpose of owning a car? Yes, I can understand that a person who bought their first car in 1964 and still has it and it is still in excellent shape would want to hold on it to long after they're no longer able to drive. But really how many people still own the car that they were the first owner of?
05-16-12, 09:28 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
It gets impounded, and if the driver is a repeat offender the car is sold at auction. If one is going to loan their car (a somewhat expensive piece of property) they'd better make damn sure that the person that they're loaning it to is a licensed and insured driver. Or risk loosing it, either temporarily to having it impounded, or risk having it sold at auction.
05-16-12, 09:35 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Yeah I sarcastically wrote that corporations are people.
Look the bottom line is that there should be some traceable means by which a person driving a car has shown competence to do so (and certainly there are gaping holes in our current system).
The elderly mom can get an affidavit to attest that the vehicle will be driven by a licensed driver, the corporation is people (at least according to the current SCOTUS) and they too likely have some permit to hold cars for licensed drivers. The CA response is just plain stupid...
Bottom line, any car found being driven by an unlicensed driver should be impounded.
Look the bottom line is that there should be some traceable means by which a person driving a car has shown competence to do so (and certainly there are gaping holes in our current system).
The elderly mom can get an affidavit to attest that the vehicle will be driven by a licensed driver, the corporation is people (at least according to the current SCOTUS) and they too likely have some permit to hold cars for licensed drivers. The CA response is just plain stupid...
Bottom line, any car found being driven by an unlicensed driver should be impounded.
05-16-12, 09:39 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
And both televise it AND make the driver and/or owner pay the costs to crush it. As well as impound fees for storing it before it gets crushed.
05-16-12, 10:14 PM
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 708
Bikes: Trek Valencia+, Dutch cargo bike, Karate Monkey, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I like it. Probably never happen, but we can dream.
__________________
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."
~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities