Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

San Francisco "cracking down" on cyclists?

Search
Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

San Francisco "cracking down" on cyclists?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-21-12, 03:21 PM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
DeadheadSF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 230

Bikes: Giant Defy Advanced 3, Trek 520

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by john gault
San Fran seems like such a wonderful place to live (sarcasm).

Everytime I read an article from SF I look at the comments, comments in general (where ever you read them) are negative, but seems especially so in SF and it's not just the comments section, it's in the reporting and interviews on the street in video feeds... Not something I'd expect from a city that protects the rights of gold fish.
It's probably the high degree of smugness and sense of entitlement in the city's population. Since it's gentrifying so quickly, you need to be rich to live there, so... what the rich want, the rich get. So if you're slowing down some rich old bastard in a Mercedes because your bicycle is "blocking him", expect to get run down OR expect him and his ilk to start leading a charge against cyclists in general.

To be fair, I see a LOT of stupid behavior by cyclists in the city. Very rarely to do they follow the traffic laws. Riding through stops, wrong side of road, weaving and swerving across lanes are all very common activities. I guess the cyclists own sense of smug entitlement blinds them to the fact that precisely this sort of behavior is what the cagers use to fuel their rage and give it some hint of justification.
DeadheadSF is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 07:07 AM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,949
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3788 Post(s)
Liked 1,054 Times in 796 Posts
Originally Posted by DeadheadSF
To be fair, I see a LOT of stupid behavior by cyclists in the city. Very rarely to do they follow the traffic laws. Riding through stops, wrong side of road, weaving and swerving across lanes are all very common activities. I guess the cyclists own sense of smug entitlement blinds them to the fact that precisely this sort of behavior is what the cagers use to fuel their rage and give it some hint of justification.
From what I can tell, that seems to be common everywhere, certainly is everywhere I've been. Funny how us cyclists want to be seen a part of traffic, but exempt ourselves from the rules of the road that all the other traffic must abide.
work4bike is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 07:10 AM
  #28  
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Posts: 14,715

Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by SactoDoug
Being 3/4 of the way through the interseciton when it turns red tells me he was either already in the intersection or moving too fast to safely stop before entering the intersection.
Maybe, maybe not. It's a judgment call, and more often than not, the court sides with the cop as an expert in such matters. If the cop simply claims that the cyclist could have stopped after the light turned yellow, the cyclist loses.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.


Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 07:23 AM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Doohickie
Maybe, maybe not. It's a judgment call, and more often than not, the court sides with the cop as an expert in such matters. If the cop simply claims that the cyclist could have stopped after the light turned yellow, the cyclist loses.
Not if the judge follows the clear wording of the California Vehicle Code. There is no violation if you enter the intersection on a yellow light even if you "could have stopped." A violation only occurs if you cross the stop line and enter the intersection when the light is already red.

If the testimony of the cop is that the cyclist entered the intersection on a yellow but should have been able to stop then the court should immediately dismiss the charge. And even if a judge may mistakenly rule against the cyclist, such testimony would provide him with grounds for a successful appeal.
prathmann is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 12:33 PM
  #30  
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Posts: 14,715

Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times in 44 Posts
Perhaps the laws vary by state then. Yes, if you enter the intersection on yellow, you can't get a ticket for running a red light, but I once got a ticket in Michigan for running a yellow light with my car. Frustratingly, it was equivalent in fine and points to running a red light.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.


Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 12:55 PM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
kalliergo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 708

Bikes: Trek Valencia+, Dutch cargo bike, Karate Monkey, etc.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Doohickie
Perhaps the laws vary by state then. Yes, if you enter the intersection on yellow, you can't get a ticket for running a red light, but I once got a ticket in Michigan for running a yellow light with my car. Frustratingly, it was equivalent in fine and points to running a red light.
In California, the CVC quite clearly specifies that the only function of a yellow phase is to signal that the next phase will be red. The only "red light" violation consists of entering an intersection (legally defined as crossing the limit line with any portion of the vehicle) after a light turns red.

Michigan law is indeed different, and effectively gives cops the discretion to decide whether proceeding on a yellow is legal:

257.612 (b) If the signal exhibits a steady yellow indication, vehicular traffic facing the signal shall stop before entering the nearest crosswalk at the intersection or at a limit line when marked, but if the stop cannot be made in safety, a vehicle may be driven cautiously through the intersection.
__________________
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities

Last edited by kalliergo; 05-22-12 at 01:01 PM.
kalliergo is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 01:09 PM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
bandit1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by john gault
From what I can tell, that seems to be common everywhere, certainly is everywhere I've been. Funny how us cyclists want to be seen a part of traffic, but exempt ourselves from the rules of the road that all the other traffic must abide.
Very well said. Thanks.
bandit1990 is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 02:19 PM
  #33  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,706 Times in 2,525 Posts
Originally Posted by john gault
From what I can tell, that seems to be common everywhere, certainly is everywhere I've been. Funny how us cyclists want to be seen a part of traffic, but exempt ourselves from the rules of the road that all the other traffic must abide.
speak for yourself. When I riding my bike, I generally observe the law much more closely than the motorists I see. I'm amazed there aren't gun battles as bad as drivers are around here. I think they should consider calling Pennsylvania the "brake check state"
unterhausen is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 02:44 PM
  #34  
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Posts: 14,715

Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by kalliergo
Michigan law is indeed different, and effectively gives cops the discretion to decide whether proceeding on a yellow is legal:
Yeah, well they got me. It was years ago though.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.


Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 05:27 PM
  #35  
Senior Member
 
kalliergo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 708

Bikes: Trek Valencia+, Dutch cargo bike, Karate Monkey, etc.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
I think they should consider calling Pennsylvania the "brake check state"
Especially appropriate nickname to place on rear license plates.
__________________
"What if we fail to stop the erosion of cities by automobiles?. . . In that case, we Americans will hardly need to ponder a mystery that has troubled men for millennia: What is the purpose of life? For us, the answer will be clear, established and for all practical purposes indisputable: The purpose of life is to produce and consume automobiles."

~Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities
kalliergo is offline  
Old 05-22-12, 11:49 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by john gault
From what I can tell, that seems to be common everywhere, certainly is everywhere I've been. Funny how us cyclists want to be seen a part of traffic, but exempt ourselves from the rules of the road that all the other traffic must abide.
I find it funny how some think that it is perfectly alright to cherry pick the laws that they will and won't obey. As well as how they'll b!+(h and moan about how motorists should do this or do that. Yet, they fail to see their own hypocrisy when they run red lights or stop signs. Or ride against the flow of traffic, or ride at night without lights.

If we want motorists to follow the law than we as legal, and legitimate road users must also follow the law. Otherwise we are in reality no better than the motorists that we speak out against.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Equinox
Advocacy & Safety
845
03-16-17 10:57 AM
baron von trail
Advocacy & Safety
189
11-09-15 02:44 PM
Myosmith
Advocacy & Safety
47
01-27-13 10:01 PM
DiabloScott
Northern California
45
07-11-12 03:53 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.