Don't Ride in the Middle to Left Side of the Lane
06-21-12, 11:57 AM
#351
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06-21-12, 11:58 AM
#352
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To me F.S. 316.2065 makes it clear.
(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, or substandard-width lane, that makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.
Just because you choose to interpret it as being "ambiguous" doesn't make it so. I hope that you are not trying to "argue" that a road with 8' wide lanes is safe for the average car let alone a smallish semi-truck to safely pass a cyclist who is "hugging" the curb or riding in the gutter pan.
(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, or substandard-width lane, that makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.
Just because you choose to interpret it as being "ambiguous" doesn't make it so. I hope that you are not trying to "argue" that a road with 8' wide lanes is safe for the average car let alone a smallish semi-truck to safely pass a cyclist who is "hugging" the curb or riding in the gutter pan.
So, "too narrow" depends on the vehicle (which could be a semi, a car, or a motorcycle) and the nature of the bicycle as well as the particular lane at hand.
That is, one needs additional information to determine whether a lane is "too narrow". It essentially relies on a judgement call ("it depends") rather than a simple and clear characteristic (like a simple width). I don't really have any problem with that but it is still ambiguous.
Some states provide a simple width. That's a clear definition.
06-21-12, 11:59 AM
#353
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What is hugging the ditch to you? I would ride about 2 feet to the left of the irregular or broken part of that road surface. Is that hugging the ditch to you? If a vehicle was approaching from behind near a blind bend, I would take the lane and hold a hand out in a "wait" signal to let the motorist know I was aware of their presence and would work with them. When I do rural rides, most of the roads are much like that. I have interacted with motorists very successfully and safely doing just as I described.
Are my smilies broken? No one likes to joke around about fog lines?
06-21-12, 12:01 PM
#354
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Check out this road... click on this and note the speed limits. Then tell me who would ride right down the middle of the lane?
06-21-12, 12:01 PM
#355
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Then, then your picture isn't relevant. That is, it's highly unlikely that any experienced/competent rider would recommend/require riders to "hug the ditch" in this case.
I suspect that most experienced riders would do the same sort of thing in this case.
I suspect that most experienced riders would do the same sort of thing in this case.
06-21-12, 12:02 PM
#356
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chip, the reasonable man standard pervades all states' traffic laws, dude. It's just that Georgia and Florida (and many others) explicitly include a reminder of this in their instructions to bicyclists.
Ohio law also explicitly mentions this reasonableness standard for bicyclists!
It's good for ohio cyclists they are allowed away from the right when reasonably necessary in narrow lanes. Kinds of goes against what some preach in here, how cyclists purportedly need to fight those types of laws tooth and nail.
Being reasonable in ones choice of lane position when riding a bike, and riding default at the left side of the lane, don't often converge for cyclists.
Ohio law also explicitly mentions this reasonableness standard for bicyclists!
It's good for ohio cyclists they are allowed away from the right when reasonably necessary in narrow lanes. Kinds of goes against what some preach in here, how cyclists purportedly need to fight those types of laws tooth and nail.
Being reasonable in ones choice of lane position when riding a bike, and riding default at the left side of the lane, don't often converge for cyclists.
Given that as I've said with the exception of you. Everyone I have talked to about my encounter earlier this week has agreed with how I handled the situation. I would have to say that it does pass YOUR "reasonable" person test.
06-21-12, 12:07 PM
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There was a time when one had an appointment that they did NOT wait until the last minute before leaving. They left with enough time so that if something happened that they could still get to their meeting/appointment on time.
Why is that such a hard concept for people to grasp these days?
06-21-12, 12:09 PM
#358
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The only "reasonableness" I need is that which I feel ensures my own safety.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
06-21-12, 12:12 PM
#359
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chip, the reasonable man standard pervades all states' traffic laws, dude. It's just that Georgia and Florida (and many others) explicitly include a reminder of this in their instructions to bicyclists.
Ohio law also explicitly mentions this reasonableness standard for bicyclists!
It's good for ohio cyclists they are allowed away from the right when reasonably necessary in narrow lanes. Kinds of goes against what some preach in here, how cyclists purportedly need to fight those types of laws tooth and nail.
Being reasonable in ones choice of lane position when riding a bike, and riding default at the left side of the lane, don't often converge for cyclists.
Ohio law also explicitly mentions this reasonableness standard for bicyclists!
It's good for ohio cyclists they are allowed away from the right when reasonably necessary in narrow lanes. Kinds of goes against what some preach in here, how cyclists purportedly need to fight those types of laws tooth and nail.
Being reasonable in ones choice of lane position when riding a bike, and riding default at the left side of the lane, don't often converge for cyclists.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
06-21-12, 12:12 PM
#361
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My smilies are clearly broken.
Seems like a relevant pic to me. I ride that section in the left tire track, which is an area that's mentioned in the thread title. Hmmm.
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 06-21-12 at 12:29 PM.
06-21-12, 12:14 PM
#362
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There was a time when one had an appointment that they did NOT wait until the last minute before leaving. They left with enough time so that if something happened that they could still get to their meeting/appointment on time.
Why is that such a hard concept for people to grasp these days?
I also believe it may be harder to give more time now to get places and the 'unexpected' can range from a 1min delay to an hour - so there is always some gamble. I have obligations that leave minimal time between them for transport - which is also why sometimes I must motor instead of cycle.
06-21-12, 12:15 PM
#363
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If it was a high traffic road I'd roll shoulder the whole time. Better bring the 32mm rubber and Mr. Tuffies though.
06-21-12, 12:19 PM
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I'd be riding just to the left of the fog line...and that lane looks wide enough to share, though I would probably move to the shoulder to give passing motorists plenty of room if the spot looked ok to do so. If you want me on the shoulder all the time...improve the shoulder and keep it clean.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
06-21-12, 12:23 PM
#365
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06-21-12, 12:23 PM
#366
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I'd be riding just to the left of the fog line...and that lane looks wide enough to share, though I would probably move to the shoulder to give passing motorists plenty of room if the spot looked ok to do so. If you want me on the shoulder all the time...improve the shoulder and keep it clean.
06-21-12, 12:24 PM
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I guess I ride some segments of road with that shoulder width and that speed limit from time to time. Actually on I-5 north of here there are a couple of bridges with about 30" of shoulder and for some reason the shoulder is a total mess on the bridge, mind-blowing debris field. I'll sometimes wait for a good gap in traffic and sprint across the bridge in the right tire tread of the right most lane of that Interstate.
EDIT: cue the east-coasters FREEKING OUT about riding on the freeway
EDIT: cue the east-coasters FREEKING OUT about riding on the freeway
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 06-21-12 at 12:30 PM.
06-21-12, 12:26 PM
#368
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Again, what is reasonable isn't up to the government to decide...it is up to the individual cyclist and what he/she feels is reasonable to ensure his/her own safety. If you'd like to attempt to make the argument that what I just stated is somehow unreasonable, have at it....I'd be interested to hear the totalitarian defense.
Cyclists aren't allowed to make up the law as they go along. Judges do that.
Last edited by RobertHurst; 06-21-12 at 12:41 PM. Reason: remove comma
06-21-12, 12:28 PM
#370
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To me F.S. 316.2065 makes it clear.
[COLOR=#000080][FONT=Trebuchet MS](5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, or substandard-width lane, that makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.
Just because you choose to interpret it as being "ambiguous" doesn't make it so. I hope that you are not trying to "argue" that a road with 8' wide lanes is safe for the average car let alone a smallish semi-truck to safely pass a cyclist who is "hugging" the curb or riding in the gutter pan.
[COLOR=#000080][FONT=Trebuchet MS](5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, or substandard-width lane, that makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.
Just because you choose to interpret it as being "ambiguous" doesn't make it so. I hope that you are not trying to "argue" that a road with 8' wide lanes is safe for the average car let alone a smallish semi-truck to safely pass a cyclist who is "hugging" the curb or riding in the gutter pan.
when reasonably necessary you can avoid riding to the right in a narrow lane, not that if the lane is narrow you're excused from being reasonable in your choice of lane position!
Now, I'm not saying you're not being reasonable in how you ride - i suspect you may be a reasonable rider. However, in a discussion about riding "in the middle to the left side of the lane", a default position of riding to the left side of even an arguably 'narrow' laned two lane road would infrequently meet the 'reasonableness' standard you, me or any other rider needs to adhere to.
Last edited by Bekologist; 06-21-12 at 12:52 PM.
06-21-12, 12:28 PM
#371
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If one has left with enough time to get to their appointment should the unexpected occur than one would not be late for their "important meeting or appointment" would they?
There was a time when one had an appointment that they did NOT wait until the last minute before leaving. They left with enough time so that if something happened that they could still get to their meeting/appointment on time.
Why is that such a hard concept for people to grasp these days?
There was a time when one had an appointment that they did NOT wait until the last minute before leaving. They left with enough time so that if something happened that they could still get to their meeting/appointment on time.
Why is that such a hard concept for people to grasp these days?
So.... you don't pass slow-moving vehicles? Just putter along at their pace no matter what? Interesting.
06-21-12, 12:29 PM
#372
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I guess I ride some segments of road with that shoulder width and that speed limit from time to time. Actually on I-5 north of here there are a couple of bridges with about 30" of shoulder and for some reason the shoulder is a total mess on the bridge, mind-blowing debris field. I'll sometimes wait for a good gap in traffic and sprint across the bridge in the right tire tread of the right most lane of that Interstate.
06-21-12, 12:30 PM
#373
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If one has left with enough time to get to their appointment should the unexpected occur than one would not be late for their "important meeting or appointment" would they?
There was a time when one had an appointment that they did NOT wait until the last minute before leaving. They left with enough time so that if something happened that they could still get to their meeting/appointment on time.
Why is that such a hard concept for people to grasp these days?
There was a time when one had an appointment that they did NOT wait until the last minute before leaving. They left with enough time so that if something happened that they could still get to their meeting/appointment on time.
Why is that such a hard concept for people to grasp these days?
06-21-12, 12:37 PM
#374
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...
Just because you choose to interpret it as being "ambiguous" doesn't make it so. I hope that you are not trying to "argue" that a road with 8' wide lanes is safe for the average car let alone a smallish semi-truck to safely pass a cyclist who is "hugging" the curb or riding in the gutter pan.
Just because you choose to interpret it as being "ambiguous" doesn't make it so. I hope that you are not trying to "argue" that a road with 8' wide lanes is safe for the average car let alone a smallish semi-truck to safely pass a cyclist who is "hugging" the curb or riding in the gutter pan.
06-21-12, 12:41 PM
#375
genec
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If one has left with enough time to get to their appointment should the unexpected occur than one would not be late for their "important meeting or appointment" would they?
There was a time when one had an appointment that they did NOT wait until the last minute before leaving. They left with enough time so that if something happened that they could still get to their meeting/appointment on time.
Why is that such a hard concept for people to grasp these days?
There was a time when one had an appointment that they did NOT wait until the last minute before leaving. They left with enough time so that if something happened that they could still get to their meeting/appointment on time.
Why is that such a hard concept for people to grasp these days?
I keep bicycles and sailboats in my life to try to keep things real... neither one fits "a tight schedule."
My employer however doesn't have a clue (I worked through Christmas)... and I suspect a lot of people fall into the same trap. Ask yourself this... why do people form lines for the latest smart phones... don't they have lives?
