njkayaker

Where do you live?

njkayaker

"Vehicular cycling" (VC) does not requiring talking the lane as a usual/typical thing.

Most US states have a bicycle FRAP law that requires bicyclists to normally ride at the right side of the roadway (to the left of the "fog" line).

The FRAP laws allow bicyclists to take the lane when it's not safe to ride at the right. While some reasons/excuses to move left are listed in the FRAP laws (typically), this list is not exhaustive (not limited to the listed items). While it's bicyclist (not other motorists) that makes the determination, the justification to move left has to be one that would seem reasonable to the general population. That means the justification can't really be one that only (some) bicyclists see as "reasonable".

genec

Classic... the above exchange is theory verses reality. And since we know that police are NOT around every corner enforcing the "unlawful" aspects... well the bottom line is that reality wins out.

jwible

OK, as the OP here is my official opinion. Stay to the right unless for some reason of safety your need more room. The weekend warriors I see on the roads I ride nearly every day think a straight two lane high speed road with a shoulder is where they need to ride one foot from the yellow. All that accomplishes, in my opinion, is irritating other users of the road, including other cyclists. I'm obviously not alone on this and the guys I ride with (one averages around 500 miles a week) feel the same. My initial thread (which was in the road forum and not A&S but it was moved here) was after several training rides where we encountered folks in the middle of the road.

I'm curious, how many times do you get honked at a week on average? I think the last time I got a honk was about 12 weeks ago. I ride about 5 times a week between 100-200 miles typically. How about you other guys? I'm thinking the folks in the middle of the road get honked at more, and what do you do when this happens? Do you stay put or move over? Not trying to be acrimonious, I'm genuinely curious.

Chris516

Yes, I do ride rural highways. But the key word is 'rural'. A 'rural' highway doesn't have the traffic volume that the interstate does. Even the definition of 'rural highway' is subjective to the definition given, by the state it is located in. There is one road I ride on that runs from DC to Frederick(Maryland) that is a 'rural highway'. Some stretches of it are no problem to ride on(40mph, six/four-lane no steep grade hill), whereas other stretches(45/50mph, two-lane, steep grade hill, blind corners) are just not safe because of too many negative variables all at once.

dynodonn 

Locally, motorists do follow behind me for some distances when I take the lane, and the time that I generally have trouble is when I decide that it's safe to start moving right to let them by, then it's "Hell bent for leather" for the motorist, and then I can get some really asinine passing maneuvers.

Just yesterday, I had a LEO that was following me for three blocks, make a full throttle pass once I moved to the right to line up with an upcoming BL. I'm not sure if it was coincidence that he received an emergency call, the doughnut shop daily special was just about to end, or they were just showing foolish impatience.

noisebeam

It has been well over a year since I was last honked at. But if a driver behind me shows impatience, honking, etc. I most usually will hold my position, however in some cases I move a bit left to make it clear there is no lane sharing possible at that point.

chipcom 

I'm glad you live in a cesspool that is nowhere near what I have experienced in over 40 years of riding in traffic in many cities and towns across the nation. Where is this outlier hell hole that you live in? You might consider moving.

unterhausen

I lived in deepest, darkest appalachia until my mid-20's. I can't imagine a more bike hostile-population. But I have never seen anything that would make me worry about using the road. If I did, I would definitely move

RobertHurst

True there is no information on precise lane position of the cyclist in the Wessels study.

But what you have here is strong evidence that motorists' failure to notice a bicyclist in the path of their vehicle is much more common (and obviously much more damaging) than a failed pass of a cyclist who they have noticed. There's no way around that conclusion. If you're riding in a certain way to mitigate close passes or 'dangerous passes' or what-have-you, you're probably putting yourself out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I know people want to believe that all these hits-from-behind are suffered by curb-hugging, bike-lane-cruising shoulder hoggers, and not lane-takers, and that the motorist must have 'drifted' or swerved onto the shoulder. But you might want to check that belief against other large crash databases that have more info about cyclist's position prior to the wreck. For instance the North Carolina crash database.

https://www.pedbikeinfo.org/pbcat/_bikequery.cfm

Here we find in several years' worth of data that the Motorist Failure to Detect Bicyclist hit-from-behind collisions are parsed by road position of the cyclist. There were 392 of these in which the bicyclist was listed as 'In the Travel Lane' and 18 in which the bicyclist was in a bike lane or paved shoulder. So that's better than 20-to-1.

It's probably true that that lane-takers are less likely to be overlooked. But if a motorist does fail to notice a bicyclist in front of them (happens all the time) the bicyclist is certainly less likely to be killed if they're not in the path of the vehicle. Think about the old story about putting all your eggs in one basket, and the associated risks.

This is not an advisement against lane-taking. But I do suggest that people try to understand the risks associated with this useful technique.

Paul Barnard

It's almost like you are telling him how to ride.

Paul Barnard

Piss 'em off good. That'll make much more fun for the rest of us courteous cyclists to deal with.

noisebeam

That is a good reason to never cycle where you live as taking the lane is sometimes the only option.


Wait, you mean you are not injured or dead? How can this be?

noisebeam

Being well out into a lane when a motor vehicle can not pass while sharing same lane is the courteous way to ride. You give the motorist a clear signal as early as possible they will need to change lanes to pass. This means they have more time and distance to plan their pass allowing for minimal delay.

Doing otherwise only causes more confusion and delay to motorists.

benjdm

I don't disagree. Use of a mirror and being prepared to bail out of the way can help lessen the risks some. (Like everything else, it can't eliminate the risk.)

genec

On a wide road, that is true... I had an encounter with one motorist that really drove that point home.

I was on a 3 lane (either way) road with no bike lanes and motor vehicles parked along the right... I really had little choice but to take the lane on this 35MPG arterial road. So there I was, early on a Sunday morning... riding the mostly empty road (empty for sure for at least a 1/2 mile up and down the road) taking the right lane, and minding my own business. Along comes a motorist, sees the whole scene, and in spite of the two lanes to my left being wide open, this guy gets right up behind me and then leans on the horn.

Of course the real irony in the whole thing is that I could have easily moved left and taken that lane so this lazy clown could just motor on in the right lane.

Bekologist

when its like that its nice to move into the next lane over and let them by with a courteous "After you" hand signal. but its not really applicable to the original post.

flipped4bikes

Thank you Mr. Hurst. I knew there was a reason why I have kept a quote of yours in my signature all these years.

genec

True... and so often the next lane over is busy... I was just responding to Chris516 about his comment on multi-lane roads... which really should not be an issue for cyclists, especially when they are Sunday morning empty...

But apparently some motorists just don't get that "lawful" aspect.

hagen2456

Thanks for stating so clearly what I've tried to say so many times.

ianstew

No, riding as far right as possible is my option. Try as hard as I can to get out of their way. Don't piss them off, and give them as much room as possible. Wouldn't be the first time I've been run off the road.......

Yes, been injured while taking the lane. Got clipped by a mirror, twice. It hurts when they do that. Thank god for folding mirrors......

Being what appears to be courteous to drivers by staying right as far as I can seems to reduce/eliminate the problems that I have with motorists.

ianstew

I'm saying that if I ride the way he does, I'll get hit. Taking the lane is frowned upon here by motorists. They will get mad, and careen around you regardless, either clipping you, buzzing you, hitting you, etc. Granted, it diesnt happen every time, but I've had enough close calls and mirror strikes to put me in my place, which is as far right as possible.

noisebeam

I suspect part of these problems you are having is because you are riding too far to the right.

That increases the likelihood of a close pass and worse you have no room to your right to move over as they close pass is initiated.

Even those who advocate staying right as much as possible do acknowledge that if one is too far right it can result in close passes.

That may make you think you are being nicer to motorists, but you are trading that off with significantly reduced safety for yourself.

I also wonder if you really are 'taking the lane' if you have been being clipped (twice) as that is typical of being too far right. If you were clipped while riding well into the lane then you are not paying attention.

ianstew

Riiiiiiiight.......because I care one way or the other how anybody else rides. I am stating what keeps me safe. Not taking the lane keeps me safe.




I live in Florida. about two hours north of St.Pete.

chipcom 

Newark (and most of that part of Jersey) has got to be the worst I have ever seen in this country...but I still rode there.