Look, by an astronomical margin, cars do more things to endanger cyclist than ANYTHING a cyclist could do on the road. I'm fed up with self-loathing cyclists. Every friggin' ride it is something with cars. It doesn't matter if I'm solo or with a group. And, I ride in the middle of nowhere. I don;t give a crap anymore. I will go through stop signs and red lights if I can do so safely. I will take the lane if i need to. I don't give a s**t what any motorist or self-loathing cyclist says. It 's a killing field out there and cyclists are losing. Motorists will NEVER respect us, ever, no matter what. I've never come across a self loathing motorist. They OWN the road.

I'm not real literary, just an engineer. I don't get what a self-loathing cyclist is.....

My guess is that the OP is referring to the BF posters who constantly whine about other cyclists who don't fit their own profile. A more accurate description would be other kinda cyclist loather.

On the A&S list, these loathers are the self righteous Dudley-Do-Rights who want to throw the law book at and snitch on all the other kinda cyclists who are not as perfect, or as anal as themselves. Another subgroup of the "loathers" are the provincial types who have no empathy (or use) for other kinda people who don't share their own lifestyle choice about bicycle use as a primary means of transportation.

I don't understand the "self loathing" part ,Unless it means any other biker that dissagrees with you. It's easy to say 'I don't give a S---" but really living that way is tough.
Stop signs and signals were put there for all our safety.
If you really don't give a "rats" keep on running stop signs and such just please leave a letter with someone so they can tell us how you died.

Ride Safe
Dave.

Funny - I'm having the other problem. Motorists in general seem to be more than willing to wave me across at a stop sign. Cyclists, on the other hand, don't seen to want to stop for anyone - pedestrians or even another cyclist crossing the street in front of them. And IMO, when the majority of cyclists behave like that - its not too surprising that many motorists don't respect them. Inconsiderate behavior isn't any more acceptable just because its done on two wheels instead of four.

So, this is another thread complaining about cyclists who complain about cyclists? Okay, I'll join the fun by suggesting the OP's experience with mv drivers is far from typical. Most drivers complain all the time about other drivers. I'll also confess that most drivers seem to respect me so I cannot match his fine whine.

It may be that the OP is talking about people that loathe themselves in cycles. I know that I am fed up with them as well.

I'm sick of this entire cars/cagers dichotomy and simplistic view of cars bad, bikes good. The VAST majority of autos are respectful and I have few problems. If you're having a lot of issues, maybe it's you and not them. By percentage, I see more jack ass bikes than cars - and no - just because you're on a bike doesn't mean I respect you and I don't have to respect your choices when they endanger me and/or others. Ride the wrong way in my lane? No - I'm not moving and I will do my best to force you to pull over or go into opposing traffic. Don't like it? Stop riding like an ass.

You folks spend so much time looking to be victimized that it's disgusting. You're people who like bikes, that's it. We're not an oppressed minority, we aren't being hunted by death squads. We're folks who enjoy riding bikes. We are a tiny percentage of traffic and maybe we don't have the right to assume everyone else is going to love us and we should get our own special roads. I loathe unrealistic, self righteous BS myself. I'm a dude on a bike...that has some disadvantages and advantages. I understand I inconvenience others and try not to while staying safe. That's it...we're people who like bikes, not a special class.

Yeah, I've never heard a car driver ranting about 18 wheelers, commercial trucks, RVs, pickups, or SUVs.

They will rant about anyone who is a member of another "group" of drivers.

Much like 'cyclists' will rant about anyone who is a member of another "group" of cyclists...

The car that ran the stop sign yesterday and would have hit me if I hadn't taken evasive action could have caused me tremendous suffering. The cyclist who ran the red light and nearly hit my wife and I two days ago on our tandem could have caused me a bit of road rash. Both are the acts of narcissists. I fail to see how refusing to follow the law is enlightened in any way. However, I assume that self-absorbed people ride like they drive, so I would rather see them riding. (Road rash is better than death.) That means I generally don't give other cyclists any grief over their choices, even when I disagree with them.

Or, to put it another way, I would much rather share the road with millions of stop sign/red light running cyclists than with the crop of stop sign/red light running, speeding, texting motorists that I am currently playing dodge-car with.

I read the OP's first post again. It is really all about cars. What's the self loathing about other than being defiant and wanting to exercise some degree of control? Something a small package (cyclist/scooter/moped) on the road doesn't have.

Some people act like they (maybe they never have) driven a car behind a bicycle. Roads are made for cars, not bikes! Bike just get to use them and it sucks being stuck behind a bike taking up too much room causing traffic!! I ride a bike, I ride on the road, I respect cars! They pay for the roads, and they are BIGGER then me!!! Respect cars and they will (might) respect you. Stop complaining about cars, without them we would be riding on mud!

People pay for roads not cars. Tax dollars are paid by road users and non users alike. As such I will excersize to the extent it is legitimate and sensible, but no need to go past that. If an occasional car has an issue I can life with that because I am endangering nobody by occupying a space. If I come up behind a rider or a horse buggy or a tractor I will most likely lag a moment or two to see the sensible thing to do and sometimes that is to not pass. If it is, I pass respectfully. Occasionally the cars behind take a hint when I set the example. There are always going to be exceptions, and I record them.

For me "cager" is an angry word. Kind of like the four letter words and the compound words. I call most of them motorists or automobile drivers or something along those lines. Only use the "cager" term for the nasty ones. I most certainly agree that not all automobile drivers are "cagers" but unfortionatly some of them are and those who are I will continue to call them what they are.

I most certainly agree that some bicyclists, IME the majority in-fact in my local area (can't speak for other places), cause most of their own problems. I wouldn't care other then the fact that I have a very strong feeling that part of the rage and aggression directed towards me by the "cagers" is at least partially the result of bad experiences they have had previously with other bicyclists. For example, I don't like being punished by a motorist with a "tight slice pass" with them handing their head out the window screaming something incoherent because I'm the next cyclist they came across after the last one ran a red light in front of them and they had to slam on their brakes and they are now not just annoyed by cyclists but angry enough to "do something about it".

For the most part you are in line with my thoughts except for I think everyone would benefit not just cyclists from more high speed roads having wide shoulders. Gives us a place to ride while staying out of the main flow of traffic on roads where motor vehicle traffic is operating at too high of a speed for us to keep up and roads with wider shoulders are safer for motorists as well. It's a win/win situation so I think that is where the emphasis should be and where most of the money should go instead of trying to build stupid bike paths that run alongside the road and have unmarked and dangerous crossings every-time there is a crossroad that intersects them.

I'm car light not no car so, yes, I most certainly have been behind a bicyclist on a narrow road many times were I have had to wait until it was safe to pass. Happens almost every time I take my big fire-wood getting truck up the North Fork road out of C-Falls since that is a narrow two lane road with hardly any shoulder edge that bicyclists love to take rides on at least up as far as the pavement goes. Not very many of them continue on after the pavement ends up further. Not a problem, I just down shift and apply a little brakes and match their speed about a hundred feet back so I'm close enough to pass when safe to do so but not so close as to be intimidatingly "on their @$$" and when its safe to pass I do so swinging wide all the way into the other lane. So far I've never been delayed more then a couple minutes or so. Not a big deal, but you are correct that it is annoying, I however do not direct my annoyance towards the cyclists in question but rather towards the cheap S&)%(\* that insisted on building that road and so many other high speed roadways so narrow and without a decent width shoulder that would allow both motorists and cyclists to use it without inconveniencing each other. Although I do agree that at least for the bottom few miles it has been improved and is better then it used to be. I also ride that road myself on a bicycle some times so I know that road from both sides of the equation from C-Falls to the border.

As for roads being made for cars not bikes. Last I checked their were roads before there were cars and their were bikes before their were cars. I do agree that it would be much nicer for everyone if much more if not all high speed roadways had wide paved shoulder edges which as I have mentioned above would be a win/win for everyone. And all that really only applies to high speed roadways, in town, in traffic, on 25mph or slower speed limit roads bicyclists can certainly keep up with traffic and hold their own and when I'm on a bike I find that the best way to ride in town and when I'm driving a car in town under such condition bicyclists who ride VC and take the lane and act like they are just another vehicle on the road aren't the ones that annoy me or that I'm worried about. Its the other upredictable ones that you never know what they are going to do and dart in and out of traffic and go back and forth between the sidewalks and the road and go either direction on either side of the road and don't seem to even know that traffic signals or cross walk signals even exist that I have to watch out for.

Much like people rant about other ethnicities or nationalities, northerners rant about sotherners, downstaters rant about upstaters, urbanites rant about suburbanites, and so on.

It seems that cliqueism is a very human trait.

Some people's children, I'll tell ya.

Have you ever considered taking up needlepoint? Or maybe yoga?

If I was going to have a rant, it would probably not be about motorists or cyclists because I seem to have more problems with douchbag pedestrians. Like in the gym the other night and some new guy was puffed right up like a frilly lizard strutting around with his fat tummy (which I'm sure in his mind was seen as muscle). The guy struts around like everyone has to pause in their footsteps and give him right-of-way, like he is a pharaoh or something. Hate to think what he was like in a car but I bet it was a pickup!

Now peds are another subject. I have been trying to be nice on the MUP when I come up behind a ped by saying "on your left" so far 100% of the time they move to the left, right in front of me. So now I just buzz by them on their left.

Exactly why I don't ride MUP's here. I have called out "on your left" and have actually had people move over to the left thinking that was what I was saying...I guess...

Wrong, cars have bikes to thank for not driving on the mud. Probably most, but not all cyclists drive. Cyclists, even those who don't drive also pay for the roads that we use. Or are you one of those who think that only drivers pay for the roads?

You know it's that kind of mentality that exists within the psyche of those car drivers who feel they have an exclusive unalienable right to dominate the roadways regardless of who they share them with...car, bike or pedestrian.

I have no problem riding on the mud BTW. I have a bike for every occasion.

The days are coming where bicycle infrastructure is not only going to become an issue, but I feel more and more people are eventually going to start seeing it's benefits.

It's the mentality of the bike rider that takes up the entire right lane of a 2 lane road that pisses off motorists! Sharing is great, selfishness sucks! Bikes need to respect motorists too. I now ride a bicycle on the road but when it it is more practicle to ride on a sidewalk or a path then create traffic I do so.

You're delusional , Dave, if you think you are any less likely to die on the road than I am. So, make sure you leave a note, also. That's assuming that you do actually ride. I did a little "get my heart started" ride this morning. I did not un-click once. I went through 14 stop signs and one red light. At the red light I had to cross 4 lanes with a speed limit of 55mph. I could not have been safer. Do you know why? Because there were no other vehicles at any of these intersections. My eyes and ears are keen and I checked very carefully. In all my years of riding, the only time I have ever been placed in danger is when a motor vehicle placed me at risk, PERIOD. Self-loathing motorists? When was the lat time you heard a driver say,"Gee, we have to be more careful around bicycles and pedestrians and Moms with strollers and skateboarders because we are so big, fast and powerful and we could do some serious damage. After all, they have a right to the road, also."? All I ever hear is,"Get the F off MY road."