kmv2

same

Mauriceloridans

This has been the most enjoyable thread I've read here in years. GW your manifesto in post 14 is my new anthem. I've been trying to sing it for a long time but you have me on eloquence. May I use it with proper attribution, of course?

CB HI

A better way of describing the situation is that physicist prove that the real world does not behave in the manner current known mathematics is capable of describing, therefore physicist and mathematicians must develop a higher level of mathematics.

jon c. 

By virtue of my smaller carbon footprint when cycling vs driving a car, I simply feel like I have more of a right to be on this Earth than motorists do

All humans are parasites on the earth.

Reminds me of the line attributed to G.B. Shaw. In meeting an attractive woman at a party he inquired if she would sleep with him for 10,000 pounds. In consideration of his fame and the tidy sum offered she did not ponder long before agreeing. "Well then," he continued, "would you do so for 10 pounds?" "Certainly not," she responded in a huff, "what kind of woman do you think I am?" Shaw replied "we've already established that, now we're just haggling over price."

Six jours

And so merlinextralight learns that walking into the asylum and informing the residents that they're crazy doesn't actually make them stop being crazy.

dynodonn 

So you're a Dr.Bicycle and Mr. Naugahyde type of person.

buzzman

Well, Dave, I'm glad you asked. I suppose it's a combination of things that leads me to the conclusion. Much of it based on the history of bicycling in the United States, the history of public transportation and the history of the automobile. Not that I am going to even attempt to persuade your thinking to change but I think you provide evidence of the bias to which I referred when you say that the vast majority of Americans hold no opinion of bicyclists - And that seems true. But opinion and bias are not the same thing.

Since they think so little of bicycling they have made little effort to accommodate it's practice, little to promote it, bicycling for the vast majority of Americans is something to be dismissed, to be discarded it is for most Americans not even a vehicle but a toy, a past time and not a practical device that would offer solutions to many of our urban transportation ills, reduce obesity and provide economic and environmental benefits.

And do keep in mind "bias", as I am referring to it, is not something like an opinion or a conscious thought it is very often UNconscious but with very real effects- like overlooking the need for people to lock their bikes to appropriate racks, or having bike rooms or facilities at workplaces to accommodate bike commuters, or racks on public buses or spaces on trains to accommodate bike commuters who mix their commutes with public transport.

So the next time you're riding your bike and a sewer grate is positioned so the open slats run parallel to the road and your tire almost slips into it, or you can't find a place to lock your bike downtown, or the local supermarket allows their plows to cover the bike rack in the winter with snow because they can't imagine any sane human being would actually ride a bike in the winter, or you realize you can't get from point A to point B because the bridge you'd have to take has no accommodations for cyclists and actually bars them from the roadway then you'll have evidence of the bias to which I refer.

Commodus

I invite you to present an argument.

Six jours

Arguing with crazy is pointless.

GrouchoWretch

Since when does anything being pointless stop a cyclist from doing it?

Six jours

Don't call me a cyclist. I refuse to have anything to do with that crowd. Buncha crazies, if you ask me.

GrouchoWretch

Was rather harsh of me.

bluegoatwoods

This has been an interesting thread. Less flame-throwing and ankle biting than many in A & S.

So here's my pronouncement: We ARE NOT our own worst --or wurst-- enemies.

(For those who think I'm wrong, you'll be wasting your time and effort saying so. So there..

It's true that one of our enemies is moron cyclists who behave recklessly and make things harder and more dangerous for all traffic. Another of our enemies is the clueless or downright hostile motorist who makes it dangerous for us in particular. The truly hostile motorist is really pretty rare. And both types are mere by-products of our true worst enemy.

I don't see how it can be denied. Our worst enemy is a culture --and system of roads-- that is addicted to the automobile to the point of insanity.

One of the posters above pointed out that we are lucky to get the infrastructure we do because of the farsightedness of some traffic engineers, public works managers, legislators, etc. He's correct and I am grateful to these folks. But they might be squashed like bugs at any time for any number of reasons. Tightening public budgets comes to mind as one real possibility.

But there are counter-balancing forces at work as well. In America, for instance, we are getting near the point of actually having one car per person. You know what I mean; on a per capita basis. This can't be sustainable. We can't build enough roads to allow that many cars, and the coming numbers, to operate without gridlock.

I'm hopeful that a lot of people will realize that something needs to be done when they also realize that we're up to our eyeballs in autos that can't get anywhere. Those of us who are getting a bit older might not see our cities looking like Copenhagen or Amsterdam. But I'll bet we'll see the beginnings of the change-over.

For that matter, I've seen a few hints that it might be starting. Just the other day our local newspaper ran an editorial --as opposed to a mere column-- pointing out that America's commuting habits are, to use their word, insane.

buzzman

And bike commuters, despite some occasional bad habits, are, IMO, the closest thing to sane as you'll find. And yet, they are thought of as "crazy" by a large percentage of the auto driving majority. Go figure.

GrouchoWretch

Autopia can't last forever. There just isn't enough stuff.

jon c. 

Sure, but forever is a long time.

In the long run, we're all going to be dead.

GrouchoWretch

We're already hitting some limits. I doubt we'll see another sprawl growth spurt like the 1990s and early 2000s in my lifetime, which is to say the next 30 or 40 years. Let's meet back here in ten years and see if Autopia appears to be growing or collapsing. My money is on collapsing. It's an easy prediction to make, as it's just extrapolating the current post-bubble trend farther into the future, which is rational since the resource base to reverse the trend does not appear to exist. But we'll all place our bets and see.

Chris516

+1

kmv2

Hopefully the pressure to create low density mini mansions and big box stores lets off soon, or I'll (we'll) run out of nice rural farm roads and mountain bike trails