no1mad 

As this thread has less to do with hardware and more to do with the pros/cons of using lights (with the odd mirror comment), I'm moving this to A&S.

Chris516

I do get complaints', but not from cyclists'. I get complaints' from motorists', about them being too bright.

I have the Minewt 600. It is extremely bright. Because of that, they only time I have it on strobe, is when it starts to get dark.

I could care less, how ticked motorists' get about my head light. I just want to be seen. By ticking them off, I know I have been seen.

Chris516

LOL

Don't you mean moving it to EL&G?

I-Like-To-Bike

Why not send it to Foo or P&R since it is mostly crystal ball speculation and conjecture about a fatal accident by a couple of true believers in the more and more powerful lighting to prevent accidents, including this fatal accident of which they don't have a clue about the presence or absence of the lighting used by the cyclists.

KonAaron Snake 

You are making ridiculous assumptions with no evidence or justification for the silly thread. You have no idea what lights they had. You don't know the time of day, or the road condition, or the driver's sobriety. You have no idea whether he saw them and just thought he'd pass safely. The simple truth is that you want to believe that people are safe if they do what you deem safe behavior. It's not true - you can do everything right and get killed because someone had a bad day.

This thread should be moved to trollheim - it's absurd and insulting.

genec

'Cause the driver wasn't looking.

That's the problem with all the laws, the lights, the bright clothing, reflectors, strobes, blinkies, you name it... if the driver is not looking at where they are going, NOTHING you do as a cyclist will prevent you from being hit.

People continue to come on here and tell us "take the lane, you will be seen..." use mirrors, lights blinkies, flashing clothing, high intensity flares and signal fires... but it all comes down to one thing... the driver of the larger vehicle, coming your way, has to actually be looking... piloting the darn thing... before you as a cyclist will be avoided. Otherwise you best have the reflexes of Superman, and the ability to fly.

NOTHING will stop a car from hitting a cyclist if the driver of the motor vehicle is not looking where they are going. (and sometimes even with the driver looking you have no guarantees...)

In this case the driver was reaching on the floorboard for a hat... NOT watching the road. Not looking at where he was going. Didn't matter how lit up the cyclists were... the driver decided "this will only take a second..." and it took longer and the result is this thread.

This is the one single reason that motorists and cyclists really can't effectively "share the road." Motorists fail to uphold their responsibilities, and don't watch where they are going. The end result is always the same.

This is what always bothered me about my bike commuting... I can do everything exactly right... and all it takes is one motorist... "I didn't see him" and I am creamed.

genec

The driver admitted looking on the floorboard for a cap... it is in the story in the OP if you bothered reading.

No speculation needed... here is the quote.:

cplager

Speculating about what might have been in this case probably isn't so useful, so I won't do that. The goal ought to be figuring out what we can do to help prevent accidents like this from happening.

One can imagine similar situations where if the bicyclist has really bright lights and is seen much earlier, a collision might be avoided.

One can also imagine similar situations where the bicyclists would have been spotted much earlier, and the driver would have still hit them when reaching for whatever.

There's nothing we can do to remove all risk. There are things we can do to often reduce it.

Cheers,
Charles

KonAaron Snake 

Let me help you with your reading comprehension. I read the story and I read about how his admission was reported. I was commenting on a prior view that had the cyclists had better lighting, he wouldn't have bent down because he would have seen them. The point is that anything we write is speculation...we know the driver said he was bent down, we know he hit them...and that's all we know. Any further speculation, like the benefits of lighting, are contemplating of navels.

cehowardGS

gcottay

How cruel. We do just fine building useless threads on our own.

10 Wheels

They seemed to Not Use Lights in the Day Time.

They had Mirrors.

https://vimeo.com/59883919

genec

As long as drivers make decisions to take their eyes away from where they are pointing their fast heavy masses called motor vehicles, there is NOTHING you as a cyclist can do to MAKE a driver pay attention. NOTHING short of being in the vehicle with them directing their eyes and actions.

Drivers may see you well enough and still rationalize that they need to pick up that lit cigarette, the fallen CD, the last french fry, even a hat, or swat a bee, ... and as long as drivers are fallible, and fail to understand how many feet they travel in time X, and how they may steer the vehicle in some wayward manner while performing their distracting task... there is NOTHING that a cyclist can do to MAKE a motorist look. That is reality.

genec

Sorry... you are indeed right here... I scanned your response quickly and responded to the first part without comprehending that you actually agree with me...

Your statement: Is right on.

We cyclists can do everything possible and still be at the "mercy" of some idiot's last second decision to "reach for a hat."

I blame lack of coffee for including you in the response. I probably should apologize to ILTB also... I see both of you are saying that lighting is not the solution...

Neither lighting, nor taking the lane, nor visible clothing, nor magic incantations, etc can prevent collisions when the driver fails to look.

Commodus

hey...i'm not sure about that last one, that may warrant investigation.

I-Like-To-Bike

Isn't that what the OP and the other crystal ball speculative posts about the power of ever brighter lighting to prevent this accident and who knows how many others are: magic incantations?

Commodus

I'm thinking cut outs of magic circles attached to the lenses of our lights like bat symbols.

Commodus

I think I just made this whole page safe.

Commodus

or...maybe cursed.

GrouchoWretch

atbman

It must be wonderful to be able to diagnose the causes of collisions from half a world away. Having only ridden thro' places like Iran, Turkmenistan, Kygyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan and every 'stan in between, before riding down thro' China, they cannot possibly have had any idea of how to ride safely in that kind of traffic and on those kinds of roads.

To give yourself some idea of how little experience and skills they had, watch:
https://bikeportland.org/2013/02/18/f...998#more-82998

Oh, by the way, they did have mirrors.

and speaking as one who was knocked off his bike whilst wearing orange waterproof trousers, yellow cape (old-fashioned type), 3 feet of 1.5" reflective strip on my paniers, reflective sidewalls on my tyres, front and rear lights, relective anklebands, pedal relectors, reflectors on the wheels, I find the OP's faith in the efficacy of lights really touching.

cplager

Most motorist do actually want to see bicyclists and not run them over. Having lights helps that. Being seen and recognized early will also help most motorists realize they should wait until they've passed you to take their eyes off the road and do whatever it is that can't wait.

I do agree that there is nothing that can be done for a (luckily) small fraction of motorists who drive as if nobody else is on the road. (or, at least, nobody who is in a smaller vehicle). Personally, I think that deciding not to use lights because it doesn't help with 100% of the drivers out there is silly.

kmv2

ugh .. cagers

wsbob

I added the bold and underline to the quote below:


Where people driving motor vehicles and people riding bikes travel the road together, people on the bikes will always be the vulnerable road users. That's a prevailing fact, but one that people shouldn't let persuade themselves not to use gear that will help people driving see them better.

cehowardGS

Are we having fun or what!

With that said, since I am the OP, I should have broad shoulders, and I do. The more one drives, the more experienced one become to driving habits of others and what others most likely will do. I stake my life on mine what I think others will do..

Here is an example, predicting and knowing almost what will happen. Driving my street motorcycle sometimes I succumbed to road rage(no, I don't do this anymore) after somebody almost runs over me. I would get in front of the vehicle and jam my brakes. From experience, I know that at the moment, the right foot of the car in back, I own that foot. When I jam brakes, 100 to 0, they jam right with me and almost go through the window. It is a reflex action. Most of the time I don't come with a second time, because they know what is happening and I don't own that foot anymore.

Getting back to the lights, a blinking light coming just out of your side vision, I don't care what you are doing, you are going to see it. If those two had strong blinking lights on their bikes, good chances are the driver would have saw them and they wouldn't have got hit.

We are just having a discussion, and my aim was not to rile anybody, but to enlighten, and therefore make more safe riders. However, just like helmets, I wouldn't be caught on two wheels without a helmet, but others think otherwise..

Cheers to all..