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So uh, which loop do I use to trigger the light???

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So uh, which loop do I use to trigger the light???

Old 06-12-13, 12:19 PM
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So uh, which loop do I use to trigger the light???

https://goo.gl/maps/aKLyA



So which loop triggers the light?

This is in Long Beach, but I see the same confusion often on San Diego streets, including the hex loop with a circular loop overlapping but set apart, with an offset. I can't tell which loop is current to trigger the lights.

What would you do?
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Old 06-12-13, 12:36 PM
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The law in most places says that if you wait one light cycle without having triggered a green light, you may proceed. I would exercise my straight-on-red powers, and if an officer of the law saw me and wanted to have a conversation I'd say I waited my one cycle at this light back in 2006, and that my bike didn't trigger the light.
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Old 06-12-13, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
The law in most places says that if you wait one light cycle without having triggered a green light, you may proceed. I would exercise my straight-on-red powers, and if an officer of the law saw me and wanted to have a conversation I'd say I waited my one cycle at this light back in 2006, and that my bike didn't trigger the light.
Yeah, my usual fall back method.

But no doubt you can see the issue with hoping to trigger a light, sometimes.
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Old 06-12-13, 01:17 PM
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If the light never triggers, how can you wait a light cycle? I've never understood this. I usually wait for a few minutes, and if the light isn't changing, cautiously proceed through the red light.

With that said, there's only one intersection on my route to work that doesn't have visible loops (all of the visible loops trip for me), and it's usually busy enough to have a car trip the sensor for me.
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Old 06-12-13, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by spivonious View Post
If the light never triggers, how can you wait a light cycle? I've never understood this. I usually wait for a few minutes, and if the light isn't changing, cautiously proceed through the red light.

With that said, there's only one intersection on my route to work that doesn't have visible loops (all of the visible loops trip for me), and it's usually busy enough to have a car trip the sensor for me.
Wait a reasonable amount of time is one approach, but say you want to make a left... the light may cycle for all the straight though traffic, but never the left... you have then waited a cycle.

For my route, there are some lights that I know don't trigger for bikes... I just run the light as soon as the way is safe and clear... no point in waiting day after day after day for the same failure.
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Old 06-12-13, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
...
For my route, there are some lights that I know don't trigger for bikes... I just run the light as soon as the way is safe and clear... no point in waiting day after day after day for the same failure.
Here in Dallas, there is a form on their website to report malfunctioning traffic-light sensors. There's one on my route to work that never triggers for a bicycle. I've reported it numerous times, over the years with no result. I have to wonder if more people complaining about the same sensor gets them off the dime or if they just don't take a cyclist's complaint seriously. In their minds, a sensor that doesn't trigger for a bicycle may not be considered "malfunctioning." For all I know, they might just ignore every one of those forms that are submitted.
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Old 06-12-13, 02:15 PM
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In my area they are starting to add a section of hi-density sensors with a bike graphic on top of them to indicate where you should put your bike.... works well
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Old 06-12-13, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
Here in Dallas, there is a form on their website to report malfunctioning traffic-light sensors. There's one on my route to work that never triggers for a bicycle. I've reported it numerous times, over the years with no result. I have to wonder if more people complaining about the same sensor gets them off the dime or if they just don't take a cyclist's complaint seriously. In their minds, a sensor that doesn't trigger for a bicycle may not be considered "malfunctioning." For all I know, they might just ignore every one of those forms that are submitted.
We have a similar thing here... I've gotten mixed results... Actually got a video sensor in road area near my house due to constant complaining. Works well for road repairs... takes about 6 weeks.
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Old 06-12-13, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
https://goo.gl/maps/aKLyA



So which loop triggers the light?

This is in Long Beach, but I see the same confusion often on San Diego streets, including the hex loop with a circular loop overlapping but set apart, with an offset. I can't tell which loop is current to trigger the lights.

What would you do?
Usually the most sensitive loop is placed at or just behind the stop line and additional loops farther back let the system know that multiple vehicles are waiting. So I'd stop and place my bike for best detection over the loop closest to the stop line in the appropriate lane. Report it if it fails to detect you. The more such reports they get from cyclists the more likely they are to adjust the sensitivity on the detectors to change the lights for us. In our area they're pretty good about responding to complaints, but it would be better if the sensitivity were set properly to start.
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Old 06-12-13, 04:17 PM
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I forget where but there's a thread discussing how to trigger them, I read it once and I can't recall the last light that I could see the sensor outline for that I couldn't trip.. I'll see if I can dig up the thread for you.
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Old 06-12-13, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
I forget where but there's a thread discussing how to trigger them, I read it once and I can't recall the last light that I could see the sensor outline for that I couldn't trip.. I'll see if I can dig up the thread for you.
It doesn't much matter when old loops and new loops are in the same area but are offset and you don't know which is new and which is old...
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Old 06-12-13, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
It doesn't much matter when old loops and new loops are in the same area but are offset and you don't know which is new and which is old...
Am I mistaken when looking at the pic, or are the loops towards the stop line almost installed directly on top of the old ones? I would think it'd still be easy to make contact at both ends with your bike wouldn't it? Just curious.
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Old 06-12-13, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
Am I mistaken when looking at the pic, or are the loops towards the stop line almost installed directly on top of the old ones? I would think it'd still be easy to make contact at both ends with your bike wouldn't it? Just curious.
In this case yes, but the ones I see closer to home are the hex shape in a different location than the loop... I assume the hex is the latest "invention" and try to trigger that, but sometimes nothing works and I don't know if I should have used the loop or it just won't trigger for a bike.

BTW I mentioned a video sensor near my house... it needs high contrast to trigger it... If I wear dark clothing on a cloudy day... no trigger. Bright clothing on a sunny day, no problem, I have a green by the time I hit the limit line. No light at night... no trigger. Use the bright halogen headlight at night, triggers every time and I roll right through.

So it is all a matter of playing the darn things just right, be they loops, hexes or camera, or sometimes a motorist... sometimes they don't seem to get it though and just give you odd looks when you motion them forward. Got a great big smile the other morning when I motioned this young lady forward; she got it right away, and grinned to boot. I returned the smile all the way through the intersection.

Last edited by genec; 06-12-13 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 06-12-13, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
In this case yes, but the ones I see closer to home are the hex shape in a different location than the loop... I assume the hex is the latest "invention" and try to trigger that, but sometimes nothing works and I don't know if I should have used the loop or it just won't trigger for a bike.

BTW I mentioned a video sensor near my house... it needs high contrast to trigger it... If I wear dark clothing on a cloudy day... no trigger. Bright clothing on a sunny day, no problem, I have a green by the time I hit the limit line. No light at night... no trigger. Use the bright halogen headlight at night, triggers every time and I roll right through. So it is all a matter of playing the darn things just right, be they loops, hexes or camera.
The "hex ones" are they wider than they are long? If so that's the type I'm actually accustomed to dealing with, if you can get your front wheel on the front line and your rear wheel on the rear line, I usually do this on the left corners and it works like a charm, also if it doesn't trip it and there is traffic (IE don't feel safe legally running the red), you can then tilt your bike down towards it's side so it's about to rest on the ground (leaving your wheels touching at the corners still) which should no matter what trigger the darn thing. Hope this helps and I get your frustration. The cam ones I can't help with as far as I know no intersection I ride through uses them, but I do know they are also around my area as well.
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Old 06-12-13, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
The "hex ones" are they wider than they are long? If so that's the type I'm actually accustomed to dealing with, if you can get your front wheel on the front line and your rear wheel on the rear line, I usually do this on the left corners and it works like a charm, also if it doesn't trip it and there is traffic (IE don't feel safe legally running the red), you can then tilt your bike down towards it's side so it's about to rest on the ground (leaving your wheels touching at the corners still) which should no matter what trigger the darn thing. Hope this helps and I get your frustration. The cam ones I can't say intersection I ride through use them, but I do know they are also around my area as well.
Yup done that for the hexes... seems to work if they are sensitive... and like I said, I think they are the most recent ones.
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Old 06-12-13, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Yup done that for the hexes... seems to work if they are sensitive... and like I said, I think they are the most recent ones.
I'm surprised Long Beach doesn't have very sensitive ones that sucks man, and hopefully they'll put in better ones for you. The big "new" thing up here is they actually put in proper sensors for bikes in a lot of intersections, even a little line on the lane to show you where to line up to trigger it.
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Old 06-12-13, 08:46 PM
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Here's your solution! https://gizmodo.com/5079430/traffic-l...e-green-lights

If you don't want to carry all that extra weight, you can plow through this article: https://www.humantransport.org/bicycl.../detection.htm

Where I live, it doesn't make any difference where you are; the loops don't work for bicycles.
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Old 06-12-13, 08:55 PM
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Here's an IQ test for cyclists.

Rule one is you don't have enough steel for the loop to read your presence. Rule two, the law says you can't go through a red (except right turns).

So, you can hang around for while and hope a car comes to rescue you by activation the signals, or you can make a U-turn and go home.

The law does give you a meaningless out saying you could wait a cycle, declare the system broken and proceed with due caution. The out is meaningless, except for some left turn lights, because if the light doesn't cycle unless you trigger the loop, which is the issue in the first place.

Or you can use your common sense, pretend there isn't a light at all and proceed through when conditions allow, just as you would at any other intersection.
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Old 06-12-13, 09:25 PM
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usually you can trigger the light if you just put your wheels over the line. And more places are now calibrating their loops to pick up bicycles. It was sheer laziness that they didn't do this before.

I have found the secret here, if there is a left turn lane, that is the loop that is active the one in the through lane or right lane is not active. Don't ask me why this make sense
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Old 06-12-13, 10:22 PM
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Many light sensors aren't even sensitive enough to pick up small motorcycles. And those have 250+ lbs of metal in them. On my carbon bike, which probably contains no more than 5 lbs of metal (drivetrain, rims, bolts, etc), I generally consider it a huge stroke of luck if I can get the sensor to detect me.
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Old 06-12-13, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
https://goo.gl/maps/aKLyA



So which loop triggers the light?

This is in Long Beach, but I see the same confusion often on San Diego streets, including the hex loop with a circular loop overlapping but set apart, with an offset. I can't tell which loop is current to trigger the lights.

What would you do?
The round loops are the newer design and the ones you need to use.
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Old 06-12-13, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by spivonious View Post
If the light never triggers, how can you wait a light cycle? I've never understood this.
The laws were written when the only lanes with sensors were the 'left turn only' lanes. So if the left turn arrow did not come on after one or two cycles of the through lights, then you could make your left turn on a red.

Motoring politicians are not smart enough to figure out that the law needs updated.
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Old 06-13-13, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
sometimes a motorist... sometimes they don't seem to get it though and just give you odd looks when you motion them forward. Got a great big smile the other morning when I motioned this young lady forward; she got it right away, and grinned to boot. I returned the smile all the way through the intersection.
Had the opposite situation fairly recently with the only vehicle behind me being a police car. Tried waving her forward but she stayed way back. The light wasn't changing and I wasn't about to run the red with her behind me. Finally I turned around and rode back to her window and let her know that we'd both be waiting a long time unless she moved up far enough for the traffic sensor to detect her squad car.
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Old 06-13-13, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
The round loops are the newer design and the ones you need to use.
Wow... thanks... I'll try that next time I come to the hex vrs round loops.
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Old 06-13-13, 07:09 AM
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most of the laws I have bothered to read have listed a time limit -- usually inordinately long time limit. I have seen the light cycle language though.
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