An interesting observation about taking the lane
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I think you would find that the 'significant health' risk isn't any different for stopping to the right of those vehicles than it would be for stopping (you are still stopping at those intersections) behind them ,... (at a reasonable distance at least), unless you plan on sucking on their exhaust pipes directly...
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Fair enough. You mentioned that most of the roads you ride on have a 25mph speed limit. These are very rare in the Dallas area. I could see how that would expose us to very different commuting situations.
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I think you would find that the 'significant health' risk isn't any different for stopping to the right of those vehicles than it would be for stopping (you are still stopping at those intersections) behind them ,... (at a reasonable distance at least), unless you plan on sucking on their exhaust pipes directly...
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Spivonious,
First of all, sitting behind an idling tail pipe is a significant health risk for someone who spends ~7-10 hrs a week cycling in traffic year round. I value my health far more than one-sided courtesy.
Secondly, I find it amazing that you are asking me cede legal right of way (to pass a line of vehicles on the right). Can you provide a single example of a situation where motorists routinely give up their right of way to cyclists out of "courtesy".
Thirdly, I think you are assuming a far greater speed differential than exists for most of my cycling. I cycle at or a touch below the speed limit on most of my routes (many roads in the PDX area have 25 mph speed limits). I have absolutely no sympathy for a motorist who wants to speed at 30 in a 25. If I slow them down a bit, I consider it one of my good deeds for the day.
First of all, sitting behind an idling tail pipe is a significant health risk for someone who spends ~7-10 hrs a week cycling in traffic year round. I value my health far more than one-sided courtesy.
Secondly, I find it amazing that you are asking me cede legal right of way (to pass a line of vehicles on the right). Can you provide a single example of a situation where motorists routinely give up their right of way to cyclists out of "courtesy".
Thirdly, I think you are assuming a far greater speed differential than exists for most of my cycling. I cycle at or a touch below the speed limit on most of my routes (many roads in the PDX area have 25 mph speed limits). I have absolutely no sympathy for a motorist who wants to speed at 30 in a 25. If I slow them down a bit, I consider it one of my good deeds for the day.
I have vehicles ceding their right of way to me almost every day. Maybe people are nicer in PA? Or maybe it's the way I ride.
That's also true; my roads are all 35mph or higher, so unless stopped by traffic or a red light, the cars that pass me will never been seen again. Here in PA, it's an unspoken rule that you can go 5mph over the speed limit. I would be minorly upset at a biker going 23-25 when traffic is moving at 30-35, especially if the right edge was clear of debris and obstacles.
I really don't like cyclist snobs, flying through town in spandex, riding down the middle of the road when there is no reason to, and always complaining about cagers and how cars ruin the planet. They make a bad image for the rest of us.
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I tend to go to the front of a line of cars and am also very willing to violate minor traffic laws to get around a mass of idling tailpipes. In Portland I rarely, if ever, have negative feedback from motorists because most understand that there is no reason for cyclists to sit in a parking lot breathing exhaust.
#32
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You see, in traffic most of the time cyclists are held back by cars and some of the time cars are held back by cyclists, but for some reason if a car is held back by a cyclist it is the end of the world.
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This article would also indicate the claim that lane splitting in Oregon is legal; https://lanesplittingislegal.com/tag/...splitting-news at least if and until this bill actually passes.
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In other words, getting into an argument with someone who has just shown at the very least certain anti-social tendencies (honking and perhaps shouting) toward another human being while they are armed behind a rather dangerous weapon (car) is simply a stupid risk. Much akin to getting into an argument with a car jacker, robber, or any other socio-path...
I simply pointed out that the activity you proposed (filtering) is illegal in many areas of the country
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In particular, as has been mentioned here, filtering, or using a shoulder to pass a line of cars waiting at an intersection and then moving into the lane, is illegal in most places in the US... If your riding in a bike lane or shoulder and continue to do so past the intersection one is not FILTERING.
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And there you go again. The last time someone in a motor vehicle shouted at me, the driver apologized when I caught him at the light.
OR statutes specifically allow cyclists to filter on the right of a right-hand lane. I believe most states have similar statutes. Moreover, many "filtering" and "lane-splitting" statutes specifically refer to motorcycles, making lane-splitting and filtering by cyclists a legal grey area.
OR statutes specifically allow cyclists to filter on the right of a right-hand lane. I believe most states have similar statutes. Moreover, many "filtering" and "lane-splitting" statutes specifically refer to motorcycles, making lane-splitting and filtering by cyclists a legal grey area.
This is simply another example of where you feel your entitled to break your traffic laws as you state in post #29...
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It is an extremely rare situation under US traffic laws that a cyclist is held back by car traffic. And this isn't a question of cars being 'held back', but rather of a cyclist illegally leaving the travel lane to pass to the front of a waiting line of traffic, thereby requiring those just passed to pass said cyclist (legally and within the speed limit)... Because even if the roads have 25mph speed limits, the vast majority of cyclists, at least those who don't routinely ride professionally DO NOT TRAVEL AT GREATER THAN 20MPH... hence not travelling at the speed limit of most roads.
In particular, as has been mentioned here, filtering, or using a shoulder to pass a line of cars waiting at an intersection and then moving into the lane, is illegal in most places in the US... If your riding in a bike lane or shoulder and continue to do so past the intersection one is not FILTERING.
In particular, as has been mentioned here, filtering, or using a shoulder to pass a line of cars waiting at an intersection and then moving into the lane, is illegal in most places in the US... If your riding in a bike lane or shoulder and continue to do so past the intersection one is not FILTERING.
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It's one thing if you're coming up on the right in a shoulder or bike lane. That's perfectly legal and I do it as well. Your posts implied that you were filtering, i.e. going up through two lanes of traffic just to sit in front of the line. That's just rude (and illegal in most states).
I would be minorly upset at a biker going 23-25 when traffic is moving at 30-35, especially if the right edge was clear of debris and obstacles.
I really don't like cyclist snobs, flying through town in spandex, riding down the middle of the road when there is no reason to
Last edited by spare_wheel; 06-18-13 at 02:32 PM.
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In particular, as has been mentioned here, filtering, or using a shoulder to pass a line of cars waiting at an intersection and then moving into the lane, is illegal in most places in the US... If your riding in a bike lane or shoulder and continue to do so past the intersection one is not FILTERING.
Because even if the roads have 25mph speed limits, the vast majority of cyclists, at least those who don't routinely ride professionally DO NOT TRAVEL AT GREATER THAN 20MPH... hence not travelling at the speed limit of most roads.
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And only two (that I am aware of) states have laws against lane splitting that are restricted to motorcycles. The others apply to any vehicle capable of such manoeuvres...
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Long been my attitude... The only time I filter forward is when there is a BL that allows me to move up easily and be passed just as easily... otherwise I don't filter, I fit in. At times I have even lagged back to allow cars to move up, knowing I will then have a car free commute until the next pack catches up.
The thing is I'm quite happy to soft pedal rather than hammer to the point where the lane narrows.
If instead I merged into the traffic before the light I'd be blocking everything behind me.
Admittedly this works best with lights that are not overly long. So all the cars that make the light can easily pass me and I have a clear lane to hammer once that is done.
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Consider an alternative hypothesis; That the vast majority of people are self-centered a%^hol&^ and react with annoyance (at best) when some creature causes them any inconvenience...
The beauty of this hypothesis is that it doesn't restrict itself to just one class, ie' motorists... Indeed it can easily be seen to apply to other classes, such as cyclists. Just read this thread concerning filtering, or others concerning reasons for Idaho stops, riding on MUPS and dealing with pedestrians, etc...
The beauty of this hypothesis is that it doesn't restrict itself to just one class, ie' motorists... Indeed it can easily be seen to apply to other classes, such as cyclists. Just read this thread concerning filtering, or others concerning reasons for Idaho stops, riding on MUPS and dealing with pedestrians, etc...
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Just because a sociopath somewhere attacked a cyclist does not cause me to assume my motorist neighbor is a sociopath. I am really tired of the self-serving exaggeration of cycling risk by safety nannies and cycletrackistas:
Safety nanny: If cycling is unsafe we need more cargo-cult safety rituals and ceremonial clothing.
Cycletrackista: If cycling is unsafe we need more physically-separated world-class cycling sidewalks.
Cycling is very safe...so just ride!
Safety nanny: If cycling is unsafe we need more cargo-cult safety rituals and ceremonial clothing.
Cycletrackista: If cycling is unsafe we need more physically-separated world-class cycling sidewalks.
Cycling is very safe...so just ride!
It's not that I mind offending people from time to time, but I prefer to do it on purpose, not by failing to understand that a particular label gives offense.
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Refer back to the OP. Motorists got upset when a cyclist held them up by traveling at 15 mph. On the same road, motorists were not visibly upset when another motorist held them up by traveling at 15 mph. Your hypothesis has been disproven, at least in the realm of motorist behavior towards cyclists. The OP's experiment does lend support to the notion that motorists are tribal animals who see cyclists as some reviled "other".
#45
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If they would just politely travel behind me at 20 mph, they would hit each light on a green and the motorist would save a bunch of gas by not racing to red lights at 35 mph and then coming to a complete stop.
It seems just too hard for so many motorist (and I guess some cyclist here) to figure out that traffic lights are timed to match rush hour average flow, and that trying to travel faster is just a stupid waste and can irritate courteous cyclist, who will then ride past them to match the timing of the upcoming green light.
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A few points:
1. Motorists will hate on cyclists because they believe with all their hearts that the roads, and the COUNTRY, belong to them that DRIVE. If you DRIVE 15, you're considered an ass, but you're still a fellow driver; if you ride *25*, you're still trespassing on "their" territory.
2. IT DOES NOT MATTER what the filtering laws are in MOST states; the only filtering law that matters for ANY of us is the one in the state(s) where we ride. In my state, filtering is illegal. NOR does it matter about breathing exhaust, or anyone's 'feelings' -- you disobey the law, you are open to official resolution. Do so at your own risk.
3. "breathing exhaust" is virtually the same on the road, no matter where you are; there are no filters in most cars, it seeps in (or blows in when the fan is running) the interior all the time. There is the unresolved debate about a faster-breathing cyclist either: a.)breathing more in by faster respiration; or b.)flushing the lungs out through the faster action of air exchange -- pick a side. (I personally prefer NOT to be enclosed with the fumes.) But sitting behind a car just focuses the STENCH, that's really all.
1. Motorists will hate on cyclists because they believe with all their hearts that the roads, and the COUNTRY, belong to them that DRIVE. If you DRIVE 15, you're considered an ass, but you're still a fellow driver; if you ride *25*, you're still trespassing on "their" territory.
2. IT DOES NOT MATTER what the filtering laws are in MOST states; the only filtering law that matters for ANY of us is the one in the state(s) where we ride. In my state, filtering is illegal. NOR does it matter about breathing exhaust, or anyone's 'feelings' -- you disobey the law, you are open to official resolution. Do so at your own risk.
3. "breathing exhaust" is virtually the same on the road, no matter where you are; there are no filters in most cars, it seeps in (or blows in when the fan is running) the interior all the time. There is the unresolved debate about a faster-breathing cyclist either: a.)breathing more in by faster respiration; or b.)flushing the lungs out through the faster action of air exchange -- pick a side. (I personally prefer NOT to be enclosed with the fumes.) But sitting behind a car just focuses the STENCH, that's really all.
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"In most US states, lane splitting is illegal with one notable exception being California.
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I find it rude to filter up and make everyone pass me again.
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It sounds like you do not commute in rush hour traffic. One of my main routes has a 35 mph limit, but during rush hour, the traffic lights are timed for 20 mph because that is the speed traffic actually travels during rush hour. Anyone motorist that squeezes by me to get to the next red light, is in fact slowing my average speed down and not saving any time for themselves.
If they would just politely travel behind me at 20 mph, they would hit each light on a green and the motorist would save a bunch of gas by not racing to red lights at 35 mph and then coming to a complete stop.
It seems just too hard for so many motorist (and I guess some cyclist here) to figure out that traffic lights are timed to match rush hour average flow, and that trying to travel faster is just a stupid waste and can irritate courteous cyclist, who will then ride past them to match the timing of the upcoming green light.
If they would just politely travel behind me at 20 mph, they would hit each light on a green and the motorist would save a bunch of gas by not racing to red lights at 35 mph and then coming to a complete stop.
It seems just too hard for so many motorist (and I guess some cyclist here) to figure out that traffic lights are timed to match rush hour average flow, and that trying to travel faster is just a stupid waste and can irritate courteous cyclist, who will then ride past them to match the timing of the upcoming green light.
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3. "breathing exhaust" is virtually the same on the road, no matter where you are; there are no filters in most cars, it seeps in (or blows in when the fan is running) the interior all the time. There is the unresolved debate about a faster-breathing cyclist either: a.)breathing more in by faster respiration; or b.)flushing the lungs out through the faster action of air exchange -- pick a side. (I personally prefer NOT to be enclosed with the fumes.) But sitting behind a car just focuses the STENCH, that's really all.
Last edited by spare_wheel; 06-18-13 at 07:12 PM.