mr_pedro

You are confusing survival tactics with the law.
So I agree that in the second case given that the car is signalling to the right, slowing down and hugging the solid line of the bike lane and given the way that people drive around here, it is a dangerous move to continue on riding on the bike lane.

But by law you are not to obstruct other traffic when changing lanes or turning. And in other parts of the world where they have the same law it would be perfectly normal for the car to stop look over the shoulder, check for bikes in the blind spot and
give them right of way before making that turn.

Like others have also written here, it would have been a different situation if the car would have merged all the way to the right, blocking the passage for the bike and then have made the turn. In that case the merging to the right happened when there was space to do so and from then on the bike just has to brake just like it has to break for other traffic slowing down in front of them on the same lane.

JoeyBike

A large percentage of motorists are distracted, drunk, high, unskilled, visually impaired, elderly, driving poorly maintained vehicles, or somehow otherwise impaired and "asleep at the wheel". This is why most of us don't test their ability to react to our cutting right in front of them so only a person with the reflexes and skills of a Hollywood stunt man can avoid slapping into them.

TomCat_Ford

What is your point? You have admitted to riding asleep at the wheel, so you're no better than any of the rest of them.

JoeyBike

My point is, you are risking your life and the lives of others making a move in a motor vehicle that requires anyone else to react to you IMMEDIATELY. Even just stopping at a red light gets people rear-ended from time to time. Cutting in front of another vehicle gaining on you is never smart because the operator could be distracted or generally slow reacting for whatever reason.

TomCat_Ford

That is a fair statement; however, that brings us back around to the main debate in this thread: were you actually cut off? I don't believe that you were, but that's just my opinion.

I'm still not entirely sure why you created this thread. I hope it wasn't to garner sympathy, because your riding style appears to be directly attributable to your close calls.

FBinNY 

I'm not confusing anything, but this is a case where the existence of a solid white line on the bike lane creates confusion. The driver is signaling his intent, and should have moved right earlier before Joey closed the gap (which he shouldn't have). But the driver might have delayed moving over because he thought the law doesn't allow him to move into the bike lane until he gets to the dashed line section.

So we have a situation of pavement markings creating a dangerous situation of conflicting expectations.

I don't know the law in other states, and certainly not in Louisiana, but in New York every driver has an obligation to avoid accidents, and must make every effort to do so. Here Joey had very clear early notice of the driver's intent, and therefore had an obligation to give way (that's why we have turn signals in the first place).

mr_pedro

Turn signals don't change the rules of who has right of way.

FBinNY 

The driver had plenty of room when he prepared for the turn, probably checked his mirror (we can't know that) and signaled. It's after that the driver slowed down in anticipation of the maneuver that Joey closed the gap and created the dangerous situation.

We could debate whether the driver should have moved into the bike lane earlier, and whether he didn't because he felt the solid line made it illegal, or because he kept clear of the door lane. We'll also never know if he saw Joey close the gap, because of the blind spot. So there was some fault on both sides, but IMO the greater fault was with Joey who passed to the right of a vehicle which had given plenty of notice of intent to move right.

-----------

While we're at it, consider what you'd say if the driver had gauged safe distance, signaled and moved into the bike land a block in advance and Joey found himself pinched or cut off. Debate the law all you want, but we live in a world where we have to share the road, and there are no sacred cows. Bike lane or not, drivers have a right to make right turns with adequate notice by signal, and they will, and if you're cut off because of your own inattentiveness, don't scream bloody murder.

This cuts two ways.

I often have to move left on my bicycle, I look over my shoulder gauge safe distance, signal and move left. I don't expect a driver, to see my signal and then race up to make the turn impossible (actually this happens all the time in NYC traffic which might explain why some folks don't signal lane changes).

JoeyBike

I was unclear on the rules and etiquette of bike paths because my city just installed a bunch of them and they cause me some serious problems that did not exist before the lanes were installed.

According to some here, I am fair game for any right turns regardless of my speed or presence in the lane. I have no right to pass cars on the right when I am in a bike lane. That helps, because that seems to be the fact of the matter. Not sure how motorists will react to me riding in the auto lane with an empty bike lane right next to me, but I am going to find out. To kill me, someone is going to have to run over 100% of me from behind. None of this swiping business anymore.

spare_wheel

I ride in the lane adjacent to a bike lane for a large part of my commute and have absolutely no problems.
Now taking the lane when there is a cycletrack...that...for some reason is more irritating to motorists.

FBinNY 

There's no issue of right of way if there's sufficient distance and speed.

But have it your way. Maybe you can have that inscribed on your tombstone.

I'm out on this thread, there's some disagreement on the situation, and I think everything that can be said has been already.

ericcc65

Let's do a little reductio ad absurdium. If it's illegal for Joey to pass on the right then this vehicle could have stopped completely in the left lane. Anybody, including Joey, who passes on the right is then breaking the law? Of course, stopping in a left lane is probably breaking the law, but you have to nearly stop to make a turn anyway. Was the driver going below any minimum posted speed limit? If we remove bike lanes from the equation what should really happen is that when a driver is turning right he or she must merge into the right most lane before making the turn. Obviously she did not merge into the bike lane in this case, she made a right turn from not the rightmost lane. She was at fault.

Of course, we need to do what we need to in order to stay safe, but it's good to at least know the law and know how it should be applied.

I-Like-To-Bike

Just curious, where are there cycletracks adjacent to the highway in the U.S.?

TomCat_Ford

I encounter intersections similar to the one in question nearly every day, and I haven't had any issues. When I see a motor vehicle in front of me slow down and/or engage their right turn signal, I prepare to merge into the auto lane if needed. If I can't safely merge, I slow down to allow the motor vehicle to complete their turn.

As has been pointed out, we need to share the road safely. Sharing the road doesn't entail me blasting down the bike lane expecting everyone to yield to me. I keep my eyes and my ears open, and I stay focused on the task at hand (getting home to my wife and family in one piece).

spare_wheel

Mirror checks are not enough. The driver should slow down (even come to a stop, if necessary) and look over their shoulder. In PDX its not unusual for a long line of cars to form while waiting for a gap in bike traffic. This is how it's done.

Now if the motorist had entered the lane and Joey had rear-ended them...that is an entirely different story. I also gotta say that OR's prohibition against merging into a bike lane is nucking futz. We would have fewer right hooks if motorists were legally obligated to merge into the bike lane priot to turning (as in CA).

spare_wheel

Joey was not blasting down the bike lane. He was riding below the legal speed limit. And as a vehicle with a legal right to the road, sharing means having the expectation that vehicles attempting to enter your lane will yield.

I-Like-To-Bike

Probably it was, see post https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post15836701

Note the whining that after double posting it to the Commuting list, the A&S crowd was too slow to offer Glad You Are OK posts, though I can't figure out OK from what except embarrassment from sloppy cycling in traffic.

Another likely motive: attract more attention to the OP's Ain't I Bad, Just Like a Hollywood Stunt Man persona and prompt more discussion of same.

PatrickGSR94

Well I just watched the video again, and in the 2nd scenario it really appears to me that both parties are at fault here. The pickup (yes that's a jacked up 80's Chevy pickup truck with a camper top, not an SUV) signaled to turn right, but did not move over to the right before turning. Around here, when the bike lane line turns dashed, that's considered the right turn lane. Also, the truck freakin' just passed Joey, which means the driver obviously did not check for bikes as he/she was making the turn, or just didn't care.

But at the same time, I personally would have slowed down from that 21+ MPH flying speed to prevent the possibility of that sort of incident.

spare_wheel

You are confusing legal fault with the kind of "mushier" fault assessed by insurers. Legally Joey had right of way and the truck did not...full stop.

spare_wheel

The "taking the lane on 55 mph highway thread" is a few pages below.

JoeyBike

At least I ride a bicycle now and then and make bicycle relevant posts on the bicycle message board.

I-Like-To-Bike

IOW: None, unless you consider a road shoulder a cycletrack. Got it.

PatrickGSR94

Okay so I watched it yet again. The truck was WELL ahead of Joey and could have moved over to make the turn. I would have if I had been driving there. I would have signaled and moved right, THEN slowed down to make the turn. But since the truck signaled and slowed down while still in the travel lane, that allowed Joey to catch up to the truck such that he was almost right beside it as the truck started to turn, almost completely still in the travel lane.

But again I also would not have been going that fast in that situation. Mostly because I'm a weak@$$ bicycle rider

mr_pedro

There is one stretch of rode were I ride often that is downhill with a very bumpy surface for the bike lane and there are parked cars. I have found that whenever I ride just left of the solid line outside the bike lane many drivers react very aggressively ,as in very close passing, even though it is a fairly quiet two lane road with very wide lanes.

spare_wheel

yes...this is the key point. if a vehicle is beside you in a separate lane it's never legal to start a turn into a lane occupied by another vehicle. it really is that simple.