Isaiahc72

So the other day I got to join to road racers from my local race team on a breakfast ride. One thing I kept noticing was that they would pay very little attention to the stop signs and never stop at them. They would look both ways as they rode through the intersection. But they'd never stop.

They only stopped at red lights.

There was a point where we had a bike lane on the road and I chose to use it but they didn't. It didn't end abruptly or anything and it was pretty nice and clean.

My question is, are these behaviors normal for road racers? or are most of them allot better at following the rules?

Edit: I know that riding on the main portion of the road instead of a bike lane isn't wrong or anything but I just see it as a bit illogical sometimes.

gregf83 

I seldom stop at stop signs but normally stop at red lights. On my daily commute there is one light at a T intersection that I normally roll through if clear. Today I decided to stop and wait for the light to trip. I got my green and started through the intersection while watching the oncoming vehicles not slowing as much as they should have been. Fortunately, I was watching and turned just in time to watch the lead car sail through the red light at 80kph. From now on I'll be rolling through that light when it's clear and not trusting anyone to stop at a red light.

As far as riders in a group staying out of a bike lane, that's normal if the bike lane has a lot of debris or other obstacles. Riders in a group much prefer to ride at a steady pace (it's safer) so anything that impedes steady flow will be avoided.

caloso

Was this a race ride or a ride that happened to have racers?

Isaiahc72

A ride that happened to have racers. A recreational ride.

spare_wheel

I roll through just about every stop sign I encounter and jump or roll through some red lights. The only time I actually use a bike facility is during a steep climb or when the speed differential is high (rare in my city).

bmontgomery87

Pretty much this. Especially on my morning commute when it's dark, I can read intersections really well by looking for headlights.
And most of the time that I do stop for a red light (a few intersections it's unavoidable) I end up in a lot of traffic, getting passed by 5-10 cars, etc.

Sometimes it's just safer to ignore things that are designed for motor traffic, IMO.

Looigi

^^^+1^^^

RPK79

How many deaths and accidents occurred?

JamesRL

Personally I stop, as do the riders I have been with. Sometimes its a hover in a spot for a second, but its a legal stop. If you get out of the habit, it can be hard to get back into it.
My brother was almost killed while riding his motorcycle, by someone who blew through a red light. My brother wasn't even the first vehicle on the green, just the unfortunate one.

achoo

Meh.

Cars roll stop signs too.

Instead of "racers" you should have said "humans".

noisebeam

When I ride solo I stop at all stop signs and other legally required stops.
With larger groups I do what the group does (within reason). This typically means the if no other drivers are approaching a 4-way stop we roll thru it. But full stops at red lights and 2-ways.
It likely works better for a large group to roll thru 4-ways when no other drivers waiting vs. each individual stopping.

kickstart

I understand there are legitimate reasons to not always use bike facilities, but why avoid them except for when they benefit you? Isn't part of sharing making things easier for others when you can? Or am I reading more onto your statement then you meant.

noisebeam

I often don't use a bike lane unless it facilitates passing by faster traffic.

caloso

I don't think racers are any more or less likely to strictly adhere to all applicable traffic laws than any other type of rider.

kickstart

Public roads and traffic laws are not designed to accommodate group use, as such its very difficult to maintain group integrity without breaking laws, and the "group mentality" can complicate things. I don't like the dynamics of group rides, bike or motorcycle, both internal and external, and avoid them unless they are an established controlled event.

spare_wheel

kickstart, i keep up with car traffic on most of my commutes so slower bike facilities do not benefit me. when i ride in the urban periphery where traffic speeds are much higher i use bike lanes.

kickstart

That makes sense. On rare occasions I have seen folk not using perfectly good facilities to nobodies benefit.

dwbstr

I'm no racer and don't want to be. It may be difficult for a paceline to stop and start but that's one reason you won't see me in one. I do stop at stop signs and red lights. Here's why.

Einstein said of computers that they are incredibly fast, accurate and stupid and that humans are slow, inaccuraate and brilliant. The same can be said of the subconscious and conscious parts of the human mind.

You'd think with almost daily reminders in the news that when they drive they are in control of a machine that can in any unguarded moment deal out death and destruction, their own or others, that people would keep their minds on what they are doing. You would also think that knowing how vulnerable we are and being bombarded with sensory input that we cyclists could keep our minds on our riding. The sad statistics say neither can all the time. Our society knows we have a problem with distracted driving and has been cracking down but the real problem is not always that we're carelesss. Sometimes it's just that we're human.

In horse and buggy days it was not so big a problem. Not just because traffic moved slower and there was much less difference in speed between the road users but because when horses are in motion their minds, what they have, are pretty much on what's going on around them. Compared to horses, all humans have ADD. Some more than others. No amount of discipline and concentration can totally overcome it. It's hard wired into our brains.

When the conscious mind (lets call him Al)* has to do the same stupid stuff over and over again, he will want to turn that stuff over to the subconscious (let's call him Bob) and go on to stuff more suited to his abilities. Al can handle complex analysis and make reasoned judgments. Bob can't. Bob is good at following a plan but when he encounters anything more than a simple if-then decision he's in over his head and will likely fudge the decision. He knows Al's priority is to get there fast so he just does what Al usually does in similar situations and then hopes for the best.

Are we doomed by our biology? Not quite. The problem is Bob learns driving or cycling by watching Al do it. Al can teach Bob to be safer on the road by designing a lesson plan around Bob's abilities and limitations.

With the very sketchy information in a quick glance or in peripheral vision Al can make a reasoned guess at what's out there. Bob can't guess, he has to know. Bob can only interrupt Al whan he's busy with other things, even daydreaming if he has something definite and important to show him. Bob can get that by working with the parts of the brain that identify objects, track them in space and time, and assess their importance (say Chuck, Dan and Ed) but they need the extra information that only frontal vision and a little more time can give.

Therefore, the plan to teach Bob says "if the light is red then stop and wait. If the sign says stop then stop and look. Don't just glance, turn oour head and look." It takes a little more time to get where you're going that way but it's not really safe to assume that Al is always on top of things.

*Any resemblance of these characters to actual persons is purely coincidental.

rydabent

More than any other group, the racer boys are scofflaws.

Granted im retired and have the time, but I stop at all stop signs and lights. Actually it is little more than mob mentality when the racer boys blow thru lights and stop signs.

keyven

You'd think that "be extra vigilant when cycling because you know there are flawed, unpredictable humans in death-dealing machines out there" would be sufficient, but cyclists have extremely varied ideas on what constitutes their personal responsibility to be safe out there.

Since there are no official 'cycling schools', some cyclists simply make their own decisions on what is safe or not: "Should I just run that red light?", "Should I weave between traffic to get to my destination 30 seconds faster?", "Should I go head-to-head with the bus that suddenly cut into my bike lane to make a point?", "Should I cut across a crowd of pedestrians at 20 mph?"

All examples of cyclists who thought they were completely justified in their actions, as found on Youtube. They didn't learn anything except that if they didn't get injured or killed the first time, it's okay to keep doing it until they do.

squirtdad

Locally there have groups that have caused quite a bit of aggravation, negative publicity and enhanced law enforcement attention on cyclists because they go out for hard training rides at noon or other times and don't stop for anything stop signs, red lights etc.

so yes some groups of racers seem to have a greater propensity for flauting traffic laws in a non race situation.

caloso

Really? More than the food delivery guys? More than the messengers and the wannabe fixie kids? More than bar-hopping, sidewalk-clogging hipsters on beach cruisers?

spare_wheel

spare_wheel

Do you wander around giving similar lectures to pedestrians too, keyven? Because in most large cities (including portland) it's actually more dangerous to be a ped than a cyclist.

Despite your histrionics, cycling is safe. In fact, I've been rolling lights, splitting lanes, weaving around car traffic, and giving right of way to vulnerable pedestrians without being injured or killed for decades.

achoo

Of course racers are worse. Don't you see how they dress differently all in skin-tight spandex and therefore must be subjected to "not like me" scorn?

/sarcasm