joeyduck

Not usually but this mornings route is familiar and there are not too many stop signs. I did not count the ones I stopped at, but that was at least 2, maybe 4. I never count the bike path stop signs though.

kickstart

I agree with what you're saying, but I think it's important to remember we never possess the right-of-way, were only required to yield to it.

Lanovran

I agree with this. I am concerned about trying to do my part to stem some of the unsafe behavior that may lead to negative interactions between different groups of road users. I will let people know, directly and unequivocally, that they are doing something unsafe or dumb (albeit politely and tactfully, if possible). I do this in the hopes that maybe some understanding will creep into their heads, and also because I too dislike the idea of a car driver taking out their frustrations about "those damn law-breaking bikers" on me. I ride in accordance with traffic laws myself, so that I can provide a positive example for those who, like me, have chosen two wheels for their transportation instead of four. Besides, I've never heard any argument to convince me that the ability to save a bit of momentum or a few seconds of time by not stopping at signs and red lights is remotely worth the inherent safety risk. I'd rather not take the chance that the one time I think "the coast is clear," that I've missed something along the way.

Is it, really? I think your analogy is flawed. Driving a car is viewed as the norm in our society, so a majority of people have a more thorough understanding of the nuances of car ownership and driving than they do as compared to cycling. It's pretty obvious to everyone, as a result, that one driver's motivations do not reflect those of everyone else behind a steering wheel. Riding a bike, on the other hand, is still generally seen as a fringe activity pursued only by a minority of crazy people (despite it being one of the most increasingly popular forms of physical activity in the US), so each person riding a bike in the public eye absolutely plays a larger role in defining just what a "cyclist" is from the perspective of the non-cyclist masses. We're not all fixie-riding hipsters, nor are we all kit-clad racers, vegan hippies riding for mother Earth, or low-income folks with Wal-Mart beaters and no other options, but to those who are outside of the bicycling bubble looking in, those distinctions may as well not exist.

I cannot tell you the number of times I've been asked by non-cyclist colleagues about why "you bike people" do this or that, simply because I happen to be the resident "bike guy" at one of my workplaces. They view me as a representative of everyone else who gets on a bike, simply because I ride to work, despite the fact that it's a role which I have neither sought out nor cultivated in that context. It's a sign that more education needs to take place, and it's important to keep in mind that the most education that most people get about bicycling is from what they see people on bikes doing out on the road on a regular basis. If those people are providing a poor education (i.e. riding like "dip*****s," to borrow JohnnyHK's term), I will seek to correct that if I am able, however I am able, from both ends of the issue.

False. Same rights, same responsibilities, and usually with only very little variation, if any, from one place to another.

As someone who sells bicycles, and the idea of bicycling, I'm particularly concerned with that question of whether those who see cyclists breaking laws and riding recklessly would ever consider getting on a bike themselves. As I said before, cyclists are a minority, and they are engaging in what, to the unititiated, is often viewed as either a dangerous sport or the last resort transportation choice of those who can't afford a car. Each time a person has a negative experience with cycling, whether they're on a bike themselves or simply watching how others ride, it just makes it that much harder to get more people on bikes.

We know that more people riding bikes ultimately leads to greater safety and respect for cyclists and our rights on the road, so if I can help to improve cyclists' knowledge of our responsibilities, and thus our reputation as a whole (regardless of whether we should all be lumped together, it's rather undeniable that we are), then I will. I will help with advocacy organizations, teach classes as an LCI, act as a good example with both my cycling and my driving, and so on, and yes...I will also call out the arrogant jerk who blows by me within a foot of my handlebar to run a red light while I'm stopped at a downtown intersection; I will let night-time ninjas know that they're virtually impossible to see and to avoid hitting when they have no lights or reflectivity; and I will shout at the salmoning idiot to let him know that he's riding on the wrong side of the street, and that's he's more likely to get killed that way.

I will say these things to them in the hopes that they might learn something, even if it annoys them or comes off as condescending, because there is a chance that they might learn something. Period. Call it tough love. I'd rather they hear it from me now instead of hearing it later from someone's lawyer, who will successfully defend the guy who ran them over with his car on account of the cyclist being found at fault for ignoring traffic laws.

To say that we have a "societal obligation" to just mind our own business suggests to me that you don't know what the word "societal" means. Societies only function through cooperation, and they only thrive alongside the sensible adjudication and application of accepted social mores and laws. As a society changes and evolves, so do what is socially acceptable and what is not, but no progress will ever be made on that front if we all simply ignore each other and focus solely on our own narrow existence.

rebel1916

I am an LEO. If you think I am getting involved in a confrontation off duty that doesn't involve the immediate threat to someone's life or health you are crazy. Traffic violations are not criminal. The police regularly use discretion in the enforcement of traffic laws. Maybe you should too.



PS I praise the good Lord every day that I am not empowered to enforce the VTL.

bbbean 

So the other day I'm at an intersection...https://instagram.com/p/oog5BstCiL/

I-Like-To-Bike

Correct, not all cyclists fit into the unwashed cycling categories you specified, some are self appointed Cycling Correctness Enforcers (CCE) spreading the "word" to those that offend the sensibilities of an LCI Guru.

BTW, does the LCI teaching certificate mandate or direct you to be a condescending kvetch and broadcast the LCI Word at all times and places and annoy unworthy cyclists who don't fit the CCE approved profile, or is that your own version of voluntary application of accepted social mores and laws?

FBinNY 

There's a certain order and logic to the universe. Folks who think they need to point out and "correct" the behavior of their fellow cyclists aren't going to change based on anything we might sat here. They're about as likely to "learn the error of their ways" and change as are those they're trying so desperately to save.

howsteepisit

Yea, but they(the "I need to correct you bad behavior types for the good of all") still tick me off. Better to complain here than stop them on the street and tell them error of their error correcting obnoxiousness.

I-Like-To-Bike

True, but I feel it is my "societal obligation" to point out that bad bicycling behavior includes obnoxious yelling at strangers on the street, and that includes condescending blather from self appointed enforcers of bicycling decorum.

JoeyBike

Me too. My standard answer is that "I run lights and stop signs out of courtesy to THEM". This always generates a puzzled look to which I add: "Do you really want ME (on my bike) stopped at a red light in front of YOU (in your car) when the light goes green? Really? You want to patiently follow me to the next red light? And the next? And the next? Or do you want to endanger me ASAP with a close pass after I obeyed the law?" They say "duh, duh, duh" to which I add: "And if I stop completely for every stop sign and you are behind me, then you have to stop TWICE! Once behind me, and again at the stop sign. Then twice again at the next stop sign, and the next one." Then finally I add: "So I thought I was being polite for running the danged lights and signs - do you REALLY want me to STOP for them? Next time I see YOU behind me, I will comply." "Duh, duh, duh....well....I never...really...thought...er...wait...er...."

If they STILL don't get it I tell them to park their car in direct sunlight at noon (in New Orleans where I live) with the windows open at the park or somewhere safe. Then go run an 8-minute mile, hop in the car and sit there for 40 seconds (the red-green cycle time of most traffic lights where I live), then repeat that 10 more times. Then they will have further enlightenment about why I don't stop for anything unless I absolutely have to.

sgtdirt

can you provide a link or source that describes these laws? i to, live in Ohio and have found that it is the local municipality that decides such "laws". btw, if you get "pulled over" for blowing a stop sign in a town near me, you will get a ticket. not to worry, it's more of a fine and does not go on the driving record. ask me how i know...

Doohickie

I blow stop signs.

Lanovran

Here's a page with a lot of the nitty-gritty sort of stuff: Digest of Ohio Bicycle Traffic Laws

Several municipalities have guides like this one, which covers the basics for cycling in Cincinnati: Bike Laws - Bikes

sgtdirt

§ 4511.39. Turn and stop signals.
No person shall turn a vehicle or trackless trolley or move right or left upon a highway unless and until such person has exercised due care to ascertain that the movement can be made with reasonable safety nor without giving an appropriate signal in the manner hereinafter provided.

When required, a signal of intention to turn or move right or left shall be given continuously during not less than the last one hundred feet traveled by the vehicle or trackless trolley before turning, except that in the case of a person operating a bicycle, the signal shall be made not less than one time but is not required to be continuous. A bicycle operator is not required to make a signal if the bicycle is in a designated turn lane, and a signal shall not be given when the operator's hands are needed for the safe operation of the bicycle. … Comment: Never turn or change lanes without first yielding to any traffic that has the right of way, and give a signal if possible. However, skip the signal if your hand is needed for control or brakes.

§ 4511.36. Rules for turns at intersections.
The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall be governed by the following rules:

(A) Approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

(B) At any intersection where traffic is permitted to move in both directions on each roadway entering the intersection, an approach for a left turn shall be made in that portion of the right half of the roadway nearest the center line thereof and by passing to the right of such center line where it enters the intersection and after entering the intersection the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection to the right of the center line of the roadway being entered. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made in that portion of the intersection to the left of the center of the intersection.
Comment: The rules for turns are exactly the same for bicycles as for other vehicles – merge to the appropriate position (right for right turns, left for left turns), yield to any traffic that has the right of way and then turn. A cyclist also has the option to make turns as a pedestrian by dismounting and walking the bicycle through the intersection.
Getting into position for a left turn may involve merging across lanes of traffic. If traffic is heavy, you should start doing this early to take advantage of gaps in traffic. Otherwise, there may not be a gap when you need it. Beginners, who have not yet developed the skill to merge in traffic, may make pedestrian-style turns instead.

yield does not mean stop. use your best judgement.

harshbarj

If someone is breaking the law, it is my 'beeswax'.

rebel1916

And that's where you are wrong

Permit me to quote myself.

korbjonathan

nope dont care. i blow through them all the time

FBinNY 

Keep believing that and maybe one day you'll run into an equally determined person who thinks teaching people to mind their own business is his beeswax. And he might not feel yelling is effective enough.

surreal

CourtJester

I still think you're wrong. If I see a stop sign or a stop light and there are zero cars around; why in the hell should I stop? It's mind set as I driving in Italy, adherence to traffic laws are based on my own personal safety at the moment. And god forbid the fellow cyclist that sees fit to stop me on the street and try to lecture me on it. It wouldn't end well.

sgtdirt

nah...i prefer this...

harshbarj

Actually a Traffic violation is a criminal act. By definition a criminal act is simply an act that is against the law. I have to question your quote here.

FBinNY 

This might vary by state, but in most (all?) states, traffic violations, possibly excluding certain ones like DUI are considered "infractions" which are separate and distinct from those acts covered in the criminal code.

Those who violate the traffic code might properly be called violators, but are not in any sense of the word "criminals". They may honestly and accurately answer NO, to the question "have you ever been convicted of a crime?" and they do not have criminal records.

Fortunately, those charged with writing and enforcing the traffic code understand the difference, even if some here on BF don't.

rebel1916

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. There are a very small number of states where traffic violations are technically misdemeanors. And even in those states I doubt they are considered criminal. Not every technical violation of the law is a criminal act. Mind your own beeswax before someone minds it for you, would be some good advice for you to follow going forward.

gdhillard

I remember being in 2nd or 3rd grade. There were a few kids that acted out, a few kids that always told the teacher, and the rest of us who tried to get through the day without any drama. I'm still in the no drama crowd.