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-   -   The Helmet Thread 2 (https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/976893-helmet-thread-2-a.html)

igorgroks 06-15-22 05:11 PM

April 2021 I was descending a hill I had ridden hundreds of times. Got cocky and thought I could take the right angle curve where it Tee'd at the bottom of the hill at speed, (38mph per Strava) Last thing I remembered was seeing my front wheel approaching the center divider curb at about a fifteen degree angle and thinking $#!%! I'm not going to make it. Woke up in the ER long enough to sign consent for craniotomy to insert drains for subdural hematoma. Don't want to think about how bad it would have been not for the helmet.

soloman 06-15-22 06:01 PM

I've never worn a helmet
 
Nowdays I ride a Catrike. Not much chance of falling off. I stay away from other riders. No helmet is going to protect me from a car or truck.

curbtender 06-17-22 07:37 PM


greatbasin 06-21-22 11:27 PM

I've always worn a helmet since I started riding in the late seventies. I never considered riding without a helmet to be a good idea, but until I used the internet to find rational arguments against helmet use, I had never heard any.

I have read a few arguments against helmet use, and seen a few videos, TedTalks or whatever that make rational arguments against bicycle helmet use. While the facts presented made me reconsider helmet use for bicycling, putting it in a different perspective, for the most part, I didn't feel compelled to forgo helmet wearing just to make similar advocacy points.

If anything, I became convinced that helmet use in automobiles is a compelling practice. The un-helmeted bicycling advocates seemed to think that the fact that helmet use in automobiles was more sensible and would prevent far more injuries than helmet use on bicycles, would simply cast helmet use as absurd because nobody could rationalize helmet use in automobiles. Wrong. If anything, I feel like a fool to have neglected using helmets in the car all this time just to conform to other people's practice. I have always used helmets on a bicycle. I have always used helmets on motorcycles. It makes complete sense to use them in the car, preferably with a HANS device -- and no, not because I race on the street. Reasonable and common speeds have proven deadly enough and there is no question that helmets and HANS devices would prevent some injuries and deaths. I've always like Arai helmets. All mine are full-face, which will work, but I'd like to get a GP-J3 for enclosed cars.

As for bicycling, I am persuaded that helmet use is less critical than I previously thought. I've never chastised an adult for not wearing a helmet, even when I thought it was more important that it probably is -- because I've always valued freedom over safety. I have chastised kids because they need to be chastised, and even now I see the evidence that they need helmets more than adults.

One thing that sticks in my mind about bicycle helmets. I was riding my motorcycle one day around Guadalupe Reservoir, Hicks Road, near Almaden Quicksilver Park. I saw an older couple, maybe in their 40's or 50's (everybody was old to me back then) riding bicycles up ahead. They were either stopped or going very slow. The woman fell. I don't know if she lost balance or her wheel was caught in a crack, but she went down and smacked her head. They were both wearing helmets. The woman struck the back of her head underneath the helmet which only covered the crown. It was one of those wedge things that's upswept in the back. She looked to have suffered a basilar fracture of the posterior fossa and she remained unconscious for more than 10 minutes while the cerebrospinal fluid was oozing out of the back of her head.

I had a cell phone. This was back in the days of the Motorola Star-Tac. But someone had already called 911 and the truck and ambulance arrived about the same time she regained consciousness. I left after that because I didn't need to be there, but I'll never forget that bike ride that changed her life. I'll never be able to unsee what I saw.

Now I've seen people die on motorcycles. I formerly raced them and I knew people that died and saw people die when their head hit but you could say that they were "asking for it." When we raced, we knew we were taking an extreme risk. I've seen people die on the street too, and they also were taking extreme risks when it happened. This woman on the bicycle wasn't doing anything like that. She was out for a casual Sunday ride on a country road with practically no traffic and she was only riding a bicycle and nowhere near fast.

Now I suppose someone could say that people have suffered awful TBI's just walking down the street, and that this woman was wearing a helmet and it didn't prevent her injury. Really, those things don't convince me not to wear a helmet. Instead, I think the reason her helmet failed to prevent an injury is because it was designed with too much consideration to fashion or comfort.

On helmets.org, I read, "An unfortunate trend in shapes became evident in the late 1990's as designers began producing helmets with ridges, rear projections and squared-off lines to give them a more stylish appearance."

My first helmet was a Bell Biker. After that, I can recall having a Bell Mark 1. My current helmet is a Giro with MIPS, and it's pretty worn out. I need to get a new helmet.

I also wear a helmet whenever I skate. I've rollerbladed and skated at the park before, but I mostly longboard on the street now. I don't wear a helmet nordic skiing, but I do alpine.

I-Like-To-Bike 06-22-22 06:15 AM


Originally Posted by greatbasin (Post 22550038)
If anything, I became convinced that helmet use in automobiles is a compelling practice. The un-helmeted bicycling advocates seemed to think that the fact that helmet use in automobiles was more sensible and would prevent far more injuries than helmet use on bicycles, would simply cast helmet use as absurd because nobody could rationalize helmet use in automobiles. Wrong. If anything, I feel like a fool to have neglected using helmets in the car all this time just to conform to other people's practice. I have always used helmets on a bicycle. I have always used helmets on motorcycles. It makes complete sense to use them in the car, preferably with a HANS device -- and no, not because I race on the street. Reasonable and common speeds have proven deadly enough and there is no question that helmets and HANS devices would prevent some injuries and deaths. I've always like Arai helmets. All mine are full-face, which will work, but I'd like to get a GP-J3 for enclosed cars.

Given your convictions, do you always wear a full face helmet and/or use a HANS device when you are a driver or passenger in an automobile or any other 4 wheeled motor vehicle?

greatbasin 06-22-22 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 22550171)
Given your convictions, do you always wear a full face helmet and/or use a HANS device when you are a driver or passenger in an automobile or any other 4 wheeled motor vehicle?

No, I don't. My mind was just changed about that recently. I don't have a HANS device and I don't have an open-face helmet. My full-face motorcycle helmets aren't ideal for inside an enclosed car, but that is not why I haven't worn them. I haven't worn helmets inside cars because of my tendency to conform and because I had not formed the convictions you mentioned until now.

Look at the reasons for not wearing a helmet in car, and you will find nothing but the same tired, worn excuses for not wearing them on bikes and motorcycles and ATV's and side-by-sides or for not wearing seat-belts. There are no good reasons, just excuses.

greatbasin 06-22-22 09:15 AM

I saw one video where the speaker blamed helmet wearing on a "culture of fear," and argued for a culture of rational living -- the kind of rational thinking that frames bicycling as such a great idea for transportation. Well, if you look at tthe data objectively, it's not a culture of fear that would drive helmet wearing for automobile use. It's completely logical and sensible. It's not about fear, but sense over vanity and conformity. If an irrational fear is involved, it's not the fear of head injury, but the fear of not being 'accepted' socially.

I have a son who is about to start driving. I will encourage him to use a helmet, but I won't require it. He's old enough that he's going to follow his own convictions. This wouldn't be the conviction that I would most desire to impart to others. I won't require it of my passengers, but they will see my example. Similarly, you can make up your own mind. If you don't wear a helmet, what do you think is the main reason for that?

Roll123 06-23-22 08:58 PM

Didn't used to consider even using a helmet. Thought they were for motorcyclers. Over time, I decided to use one every time I ride.

igorgroks 06-25-22 03:44 PM

Very recently my view on the subject has shifted slightly. First of all one thing that has not changed is my view that much anti-helmet sentiment is a form of science denialism.

It's physics.

What changed me is the realization that many cyclists do not ride very fast. Science again.

There is the science of kinematics that tells us about motion, forces, and impacts. By itself this gives an incomplete picture of traumatic brain injury. For a more complete assessment of the risks we need to take probabilities into account also. These probabilities are affected by many factors such as speed, terrain, and angle of impact. There is also the variable beloved of the anti-helmet crowd, the "busted spleen." While I have not, and will not, ditch the helmet, I do understand that slower riders are at lower risk, not only of TBI, but of "busted spleens" as well.

If you like getting on tempo and cruising down the highway at your best performance without a helmet, that is science denialism. E-Bikes? fuggidaboudit.

curbtender 06-25-22 04:40 PM

This guy refused to wear a helmet, but his help did...
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a099c2ee27.jpg

satrain18 06-27-22 11:25 AM


Originally Posted by Stadjer (Post 18925045)
special drop bar fast bike

Road bike.


wielrenner
This is a word used by transport-only cyclists to dehumanize road cyclists.

I-Like-To-Bike 06-27-22 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by satrain18 (Post 22555495)
"wielrenner"

This is a word used by transport-only cyclists to dehumanize road cyclists.

Sniff, Sniff,:( those poor misunderstood road cyclists-allegedly dehumanized by those nasty Dutch fietsers who don't wear helmets.:roflmao2:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wielrenner
wielrenner
Dutch
Etymology
From wiel +‎ rennen +‎ -er.

Noun
wielrenner m (plural wielrenners, diminutive wielrennertje n, feminine wielrenster):
a sports or fitness cyclist, someone who races bicycles, as opposed to a person riding a bike for any other purpose. [from ca. 1889]

CheGiantForLife 06-28-22 01:09 PM

I bought a Schwinn Paceline Bike Helmet for $35 at Target
 
Was shopping for something else, and ran across this in sporting goods.
So I sucked it up and bought it. Price seems right.
Says CPSC rated, whatever that is.

https://www.target.com/p/schwinn-pac...y/-/A-80178013

Rolla 06-28-22 01:14 PM

CPSC = Consumer Product Safety Commission.

Iride01 06-28-22 02:23 PM

It's much better than no helmet protection for crashes that involve head injury and potential for concussion. Probably any more expensive helmet is just marginal gains. Although I do use a somewhat expensive MIP's helmet. And likely my helmets in the future will also be such.

Since we don't really get to pick what kind of crashes we will have, it's better to wear a helmet and be ready. I don't think the cyclists I see with their helmets hanging on the handle bars will have time to put them on when they have a crash. Unless they plan their crashes carefully! <grin>

greatbasin 06-28-22 04:59 PM

The Paceline wasn't tested, but the $18 Schwinn Intercept helmet earned a 4-star rating in Virginia Tech's test and beat out the $250 Specialized S-Works Evade II and the $240 Kali Tava. A rounded EPS foam dome with a polycarbonate shell is effective protection and it doesn't have to cost more than common disposable product packaging. With that said, I'm personally willing to spend a lot more for comfort, fit, lightweight, style, and marginally better protection.

CheGiantForLife 06-28-22 06:13 PM


Originally Posted by greatbasin (Post 22557136)
The Paceline wasn't tested, but the $18 Schwinn Intercept helmet earned a 4-star rating in Virginia Tech's test and beat out the $250 Specialized S-Works Evade II and the $240 Kali Tava. A rounded EPS foam dome with a polycarbonate shell is effective protection and it doesn't have to cost more than common disposable product packaging. With that said, I'm personally willing to spend a lot more for comfort, fit, lightweight, style, and marginally better protection.

$18? I paid $35. I feel ripped off.
Well Intercept is now $30 also. I feel better.
https://www.target.com/s/schwinn+adult+intercept+helmet

satrain18 07-16-22 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 22555652)
Sniff, Sniff,:( those poor misunderstood road cyclists-allegedly dehumanized by those nasty Dutch fietsers who don't wear helmets.:roflmao2:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wielrenner
wielrenner
Dutch
Etymology
From wiel +‎ rennen +‎ -er.

Noun
wielrenner m (plural wielrenners, diminutive wielrennertje n, feminine wielrenster):
a sports or fitness cyclist, someone who races bicycles, as opposed to a person riding a bike for any other purpose. [from ca. 1889]

Whoever wrote this entry must REALLY hate road bikes and is as divisive as he or she can get.

igorgroks 07-17-22 07:24 AM


Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 22555652)
Sniff, Sniff,:( those poor misunderstood road cyclists-allegedly dehumanized by those nasty Dutch fietsers who don't wear helmets.:roflmao2:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wielrenner
wielrenner
Dutch
Etymology
From wiel +‎ rennen +‎ -er.

Noun
wielrenner m (plural wielrenners, diminutive wielrennertje n, feminine wielrenster):
a sports or fitness cyclist, someone who races bicycles, as opposed to a person riding a bike for any other purpose. [from ca. 1889]

Looking at photos of that "great" Dutch bike infrastructure it would seem it is intended to slow bikes down so much helmets are less necessary. I like going faster than possible when you are mixed with pedestrians.

Stadjer 07-26-22 07:38 AM


Originally Posted by satrain18 (Post 22576443)
Whoever wrote this entry must REALLY hate road bikes and is as divisive as he or she can get.

No, it's entirely neutral by someone who does understand the language.


Originally Posted by igorgroks (Post 22577253)
Looking at photos of that "great" Dutch bike infrastructure it would seem it is intended to slow bikes down so much helmets are less necessary. I like going faster than possible when you are mixed with pedestrians.

It's not intended for antisocial behaviour. If you're too slow to compete in an event with closed off roads, you'll have to adapt your speed to the situation.

igorgroks 07-26-22 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by Stadjer (Post 22587966)
No, it's entirely neutral by someone who does understand the language.

It's not intended for antisocial behaviour. If you're too slow to compete in an event with closed off roads, you'll have to adapt your speed to the situation.

My situation is either commuting to work, or riding for fitness. I like to get where I am going as fast as I can go. I am competing against myself, and so far I'm winning. I do not want to have no choice other than to mix with pedestrians.

Stadjer 07-26-22 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by igorgroks (Post 22588190)
My situation is either commuting to work, or riding for fitness. I like to get where I am going as fast as I can go. I am competing against myself, and so far I'm winning. I do not want to have no choice other than to mix with pedestrians.

I have the same with cars. I'd like to go faster, pick the raceline, brake late, hit the apex, get on the power smooth and then flat out of the corner. But it's not my road, it would be antisocial to act like it is.

igorgroks 07-26-22 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by Stadjer (Post 22588314)
I have the same with cars. I'd like to go faster, pick the raceline, brake late, hit the apex, get on the power smooth and then flat out of the corner. But it's not my road, it would be antisocial to act like it is.

I do believe you are a troll

satrain18 07-26-22 06:14 PM


Originally Posted by igorgroks (Post 22588462)
I do believe you are a troll

I also hate this divisive idea that Dutch-style-upright-transport-only cyclists are the only real cyclists, and that road cyclist are not cyclist at all but merely "wheel runners" who deserve condemnation and ridicule.

podbotman 07-27-22 09:41 PM

Am I the only one who loves how road helmets look?

I'm not even talking about the crazy expensive ones.

City style helmets aren't bad either, but they're not my cup of tea personally!


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