rl249

Hey guys!

Before I start I want to clear up a few thing; I do wear reflective gear and a helmet, I do use lights ( two front, two back), I do use my hand signals, I do understand the rules of the road and have a licence.

So a few months ago I moved home, the moved forced me to take my bike to work every day. Which was something I did anyway, but sometimes I got the bus or another form of transport if my bike was out of action or if I was.
The new route is pretty dangerous in comparison to the old one, I'm going to big junctions and passing A LOT of 18 wheelers, but all that stuff is generally okay to cycle with. However the new route seems to harbor some of the worst drivers I've ever come across in my entire life. So after a few weeks and a few close calls I decided to invent in a GoPro. Since I've started using the GoPro I get footage of at least 1 person a day breaking the rules of the road. Only yesterday I had a guy force me out of the cycle lane so he could get a head of me, the guy was easily less than a foot away from hitting my handle bars. So not only did he almost hit he, he illegally used the cycle lane to get a head of me. Once he got a head of me he cut across two lanes of traffic.

I contacted the police to show them all the footage I had collected. They said they will get in contact with the drivers to give them the appropriate punishment, but I think we all know that they won't do anything about it. I was speaking to my brother about all the incidents and he said "that camera will only be good when you get hit by car.."

How true is this? at what point will police actually do something to defend cyclists against bad drivers? Do you guys have any similar stories where you have evidence of someone breaking the law and putting your life at risk but the police do nothing?

rumrunn6

a camera won't save your life. might be useful to your widow. I try to avoid "kill zones". you like that phrase? feel free to use it. my rides have a couple but I try to keep them to a minimum. I do use a camera and once captured some kids squirting me w water pistols.

kickstart

The two questions,
Will it really have any impact on the overall character of the drivers in that area, and does the work load of the areas police allow them to allot time to investigating reports of minor traffic infractions?

It seems a lot wiser and less of a hassle to adapt to the environment then try to change it.

howsteepisit

Seems like the use of citizen supplied video footage for disciplinary action varies greatly by jurisdiction. Where are you located? There has been a few threads that hotly debate the use of GoPro type camera, you need to use the search function to find them, or most likely, hang on this thread for a while because there is no anthill so small that it cannot grow to a great everest-like mountain in the world of A&S.

EDIT: I did not mean to imply this subject is insignificant, I think it is important, although I personally believe that trying to get police to do anything about self recorded traffic violation is tilting at windmills, other people have found different.

Hypno Toad

I got a Hero 2 a few years ago, I've been using on my commutes daily. I have shared videos with the local police and received good feedback. Here is my example from this time last year. Local police said that they called the driver and warned her about the 3-foot rule and that bikes have the right to use the road.


I have another good story about the helmet mounted GoPro - I was entering an intersection where the shoulder (bike route) ends in a right turn lane and I was going straight at the light. There is a string of cars behind me, I found the good sized gap, signaled to change into the center (through) lane and moved left. A car made an aggressive pass on the left in a no-pass marked area, I shouted a loud "HEY!" and to my surprise this car sounded a siren and turned on flashing lights - it's an unmarked police car. He stopped, blocking traffic, until I got along side and started yelling at me. I leaned down until my GoPro was visible to him and his tone changed, like magic. The comedy of this, my SD card was being flaky and the GoPro wasn't running at the time.

GoPro offers you a good tool to capture and report drivers to the local police. Local police are not all created equal, some will support bikes and some will not. If you are in an area without supportive police, use social media to document bad drivers and work on the elected officials in city government to push for more support from police.

rl249

I understand that it wont save my life, I wouldn't expect it to, I'd just hope that some drivers would notice a camera mounted on my helmet and be a bit more cautious. I've sort of resigned myself to the fact that I'll get hit, no matter how safe and aware I am! ( touch wood it doesn't actually happen ) But if it did happen at least I could defend myself!
Kickstart; to be honest I doubt it'll change things much if I report these people, I know the police have bigger things to deal with but at the end of the day cyclist safty is one of those things I guess.

I suppose the overall point of this thread was to find out if these is much point in wearing the GoPro daily.

rumrunn6

I think it helps. I use a white Polaroid cam on my helmet and it's noticeable. I see drivers with funny smiles. I'm sure I look like a jack ass. Now, when I point it backwards, down and to the left like facing cars approaching from behind, I really do feel like they see that they are on camera and the camera is pointing right at them and I get fewer close calls. But they aren't all eliminated and I'm still surprised to get a close call, almost as is they were distracted and not only didn't give a sh*t about me but certainly didn't norice what was on my helmet. but for the most part I think it's presence does add a bit to my safety.

RomansFiveEight

I don't have a GoPro, I have a DriftHD. I like it because, although the video quality is a smidge less than the GoPro, it's 'torpedo' shaped. It looks better, IMHO, on a helmet than a GoPro. It's also a bit more aerodynamic (which matters a lot more on my motorcycle when you're going 70mph and a camera hanging off the side of my helmet can start tugging!)

I've yet to use it on the bicycle though. But I wear it every time I ride the motorcycle. Honestly, just because sometimes I like to look at ride footage. It's kind of cool. But I am sure it'll come in handy should I ever get involved in an accident. It's hard for a drive to say "He was speeding and came out of nowhere!" when I've got video footage of my speedometer, and the driver pulling out of an intersection or turning left in front of me, violating my right of way. Which I HAVE had happen, quite a bit actually. But I've never reported it or forwarded the footage. Maybe I should?

The only exception to that was an OBVIOUSLY drunk driver. They pulled out in front of me after leaving a bar, I braked in time. Then followed them for a few minutes. (not intentionally, they just happened to be going the same way) Speeds changing, swerving, even going all the way into the oncoming lane and touching the opposite white line. Luckily, no traffic was coming the other way as this was late at night one evening. My helmet has two little speakers and a microphone mounted in it, and connects via bluetooth to my phone. Usually for music. But, it does support hands free calling! So using a button on my helmet and "Siri", I called 911 and informed them that a very dangerous drunk driver was on the road and was minutes from a bad accident, and mentioned I had it on camera. The next morning I got a phone call from a state trooper who had arrested him for DWI, said he was way over the limit, and thanked me. And asked if I had the footage. I said yes. He asked if I, if asked, could provide them the footage. I said yes to that as well. Though they never DID ask me for the footage. My assumption is the guy either took a deal with the prosecutor or they just decided there's really no need for the footage if they've got his BAC way over the legal limit. (Unless maybe they were planning on piling on citations for crossing the center line, failing to signal, and other traffic violations he committed 'on camera'. But I'm not sure what the legality of that is.) This all happened when I was on the motorcycle, of course.

If folks don't see my motorcycle with a bright halogen headlight and driving lights, orange cornering lights, reflective gear and helmet, and loud exhaust coming from the V-Twin engine, then they'll never see a bicycle with a little bitty blinking light! I don't think a helmet cam is a bad idea. Though there are some out there who I think invite trouble because they want a good shot.

rl249

I would hope that my camera has the same effect! sometimes you can see drivers taking a bit more caution since they know they're being recorded. I feel a little bummed that I spent all that money on a camera try and do something about the fact I almost get knocked off my bike once a week and the police ( in ireland ) just don't care.
Maybe I need to start posting the footage on their twitter page

RomansFiveEight

Just keep in mind that, believe it or not, some police officers actually have a very negative outlook towards personal cameras. (Despite their dash cams and sometimes body cams). They don't like getting recorded by bystanders. And then there's the annoying yahoos out there who intentionally rile up police, while wearing a camera, and spouting all of the legalese they know while the police are trying to respond to the situation. They give folks a bad name and then you probably do have at least one cop in the bunch who is going to say "Oh brother, one of those guys" when you tell them you've got a helmet cam and footage.

I'm also curious as to what the local laws are regarding third party camera footage. I imagine that the reasons other posters said the police essentially just made phone calls and said "Please don't do that", is that the courts might never allow a citizens unsolicited video footage as evidence. Since the footage can't be used as evidence, short of the individual confessing to doing whatever it was you said they did, there's essentially nothing that can legally prove they did it.

Interestingly enough, police dash cams, security cameras, and even cellphone videos of crimes-in-progress HAVE been used in court cases before. But I seem to remember hearing of some cases where helmet cams, personal (non police) dash cams, and other cameras weren't admissible when it came to traffic violations. Maybe the rules are different when it's a misdemeanor or a traffic violation, versus a serious felony.

Chris516

I am saving up for the GoPro Hero 4. Because of the Chest Mount Strap. While there are definitely other good cameras out there for a cheaper price. I haven't seen any others, with a Chest Mount Strap. Also, The quality of the camera.

RomansFiveEight

The DriftHD uses a shoulder strap, instead of a chest mount. Also, keep in mind you can save a few bucks by using the chest strap on 'lesser model' GoPro's, like the Hero 3. Of course, the Hero 4 is that much better Certainly, nobody has better image quality in a small, mountable camera than GoPro.

This is probably the route I'll go if I want to start recording my cycling rides (shoulder strap);


Though folks have definitely had an easy enough time using the various helmet mounts, either strap or just a sticky-mount, on bicycle helmets;



BUT, the image quality is relatively soft and it's lower-light performance is nowhere near a GoPro. (On the DriftHD you can rotate the lens, hence it's ability to be mounted at various angles.)

genesplitter

The best tool I've ever used to increase safety from aggressive drivers is my (empty) rear child seat. Car's don't realize there is no child until they've passed. If your really worried, you can even use a child trailer. I consistently have cars give me so much space that they force oncoming traffic into the shoulder or ditch on the other side of the road. Also doubles as a decent carrier. Often found free in junk giveaways or buy a cheapy on CL.

I wonder what the police would think of the careless driver, after seeing your bicycle and child seat laying smashed on the side of the road? I wonder if aggressive drivers will still graze you if they believe there is a child in the seat.

CrankyOne

We've had two incidences of people with child trailers being hit from behind just in the past year. One resulted in death of the rider and mild injuries to two children. The other resulted in severe injuries to the rider and one child.

genesplitter

Good point CrankyOne, you can never be 100% safe. This suggestion only shifts the odds. It is similar to the tip from David Hough's book, "Proficient Motorcycling" that suggest car drivers notice motorcycle riders far more easily if driving a white motorcycle, wearing a blue shirt, and white helmet, so as to look more like a motorcycle cop. For some reason, people unconsciously "see" motorcycle cops without trying, but not so much with other motorcyclists.

I used to take my kids in the kid-trailer, but only on the sidewalks with a curb. I didn't feel completely safe riding with traffic.

lopek77

The video will be a proof If you get hit or killed (I hope not!). Depending on where you are located, cops may actually give tickets to people breaking the law, and caught on your camera.
I know that in UK, you can tag licence plate on YouTube videos, which are easily searchable by their cops. It's something normal there to contact cops with the video footage to spank the bad driver.
Just be beware, that uploading videos like that to YouTube, will make all cyclist haters find you, hate you, and they will be calling you all kinds of names lol
To the majority of population, videos like that are not considered a safety aid/personal protection and so on...They think we only post them to make them angry and to make money

digger

I've been using a Contour camera since May 2010. For the most part, to video traffic situations for my bicycle safety courses.

In 2011 the 1 metre law was passed here. Currently the only province in Canada to have such a law.

In 2012 I was forced off the road and called the police. They intially stated that it would be difficult to get a conviction if the driver contested. I said I had video. Police showed up 2 hours later, reviewed the video and 2 months later issued the driver a ticket. He contested, went to court, both pleaded our cases, video was played, I won the court case. I would also add that I did have to..."keep on top of the officer". I emailed him every two weeks to ask about status and provided him with the particular section in the MVA regarding the 1 metre law. He knew nothing of it, was a recent police recruit, and I guess wanted to consult with superiors on how best to proceed.

I DO NOT use the video footage to report driving violations, nor do I use it to report honest motorist errors that involve me. Pulling out in front of me for example. I'm not the police. I only use it to record traffic scenerios to play in my bicycle safety courses and now, I guess, as a tool to report aggressive behaviour against me or threats on my life. Having said that, I only felt the need to use it that once. In that case it was clear aggression, the long blast on the horn and the revved engine both are clear proof that he saw me and intentionaly threated me.

No, a camera won't save your life and proper cycling practices (lights, bright clothing, being predictable) are better ways to increase safety. I guess I can also look at it as a advocacy tool if used responsibly. In my case, the court case was in the news and I was interviewed. Many, who new nothing of the 1 metre law, now do. In addition, and I only surmise, that anyone who do treat cyclists poorly will now realize that negative consequences can result.

I would urge anyone that uses a camera to be judicious in its use. If something should happen, allbeit intentional, review the footage first and give careful consideration to report the issue. You do not want to be come an annoyance to the police, it will do you no good. If nothing else, perhaps learn from the situation and how to try and decrease the chances of it happening again.

Edit: I should also add that I am currently a backer/investor on the Fly12 camera by Cycliq. See the Kickstarter.com campaign. They've rasied $560,000 and still have 13 days to go.

CrankyOne

As @howsteepisit said, here it varies by jurisdiction and sometimes even by individual cops. We have one city with a very pro-bike/walk cop who will do everything he can to ticket drivers who endanger people walking or riding bicycles. That I know of, no other cops in his dept will lift a finger.

We have one quite corrupt sheriffs dept, Ramsey Cty, and the one next door, Hennepin Cty, seems fairly clean. Google Metro gang strike force to dip your toe in to how Ramsey Cty Sheriff's operate. Their treatment of bicycle riders follows. Lots of complaints about Ramsey Cty Sheriffs nearly hitting bicycle riders and are fairly dismissive of ticketing motorists for flagrant violations. Hennepin is just the opposite. Anecdotally though, when I was hit by an errant driver at an intersection the Ramsey Cty guy that showed up seemed pretty good. From what I was told though as soon as he started asking questions several people (drivers) quickly said that I was obeying the law, had stopped, and had ROW to go and that the driver did not have ROW so maybe the deputy felt boxed in. Either way I had a lot of gratitude for the folks that were there and the cop.

ItsJustMe

I don't have a GoPro, I had one but I found it to be not that good of a camera. I'm now riding with an SJCam M10 which I like, and an older SVC200 which works very well on the helmet (GoPros on the helmet are horrible).

I've owned about 8 cameras to date. The GoPro wasn't the worst of the bunch, but offhand I think I only ever had 2 cameras that were worse. There are multiple cheap Chinese cameras that are better than basic GoPros.

I have never gone to the police with video, the drivers on my route are generally pretty good. I think if I did I'd be pretty well received, the cops around here have been good in my experience. I do occasionally post stupid driver videos on YouTube, the cams are good for that.

BobbyG

I began using a video camera 2 years ago, partly for recording any incidents, but mostly to record the beauty and fun of my commutes and excursions. I've had three or four incidents where I've encountered aggressive or confrontational drivers. I merely pointed to my helmet and said "You're on camera." Works like a charm. Here are some rides:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...5TfAHK4EOymjDg

Chris516

My reason for the Chest Mount Strap, instead of affixing the camera to my helmet or handle bars. Is because of, having it centered where the air flow will go around it, without obstructing the air flow.

I know my feeling about the air flow may seem pointless. But I am thinking of the 'middle ground' between aerodynamics, and camera footage.
Child seats on the back of bike don't make a difference. Because, Unless you have a life-size 'dummy' in the seat. Motorists' won't see it.
I think there have been some in Maryland. Where the bike was hit from behind. By a motorist that wasn't paying attention.
Contour doesn't have a Chest Mount Strap. So I won't even look at their cameras'.
Law enforcement around here says they have to see it as an eyewitness. Before they will do something about it. Law enforcement say hello to Facebook, YouTube, ******, LiveLeak and Twitter.
Yes, To record both.
Unless you are in Detroit(you are in Michigan). The behavior of LEO's in a locale outside of a major metropolitan region. Is entirely different.

lopek77

Really? If I can ask Why and Which ones?

spare_wheel

I often do not wear reflective gear or a helmet. I sometimes intentionally ride without a light. I rarely use hand signals. And I intentionally ignore many rules of the road. I do have a license but my tabs are currently expired since I'm deciding whether I want to gift my car to my neighbor.

Now that we've cleared that up I will say that I do use a GoPro equivalent -- the sony action cam. Its somewhat useful for advocacy purposes but I think its pretty much useless for any legal purpose. Even at 1080p license plate numbers are often hard to read and the police are not particularly interested in someone's private cam footage when it comes to minor traffic violations. I suppose if I were ever involved in a serious accident it might prove useful to my estate but I don't particularly worry about that since I'm more likely to die taking a shower than riding a bike.

B. Carfree

There's a point a lot of safety nannies and "advocates" should ponder.

KingCat

I have two gopro cameras on my bike. I started using them as protection against the police. They work perfectly for that purpose.

As far as cars go, if more people start using cameras then drivers will become more aware of them and be less likely to do stupid stuff.

Cameras are good thing. Everyone should have one.