Cyclist Struck by car - Erie,Pa
03-01-15, 07:44 AM
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03-01-15, 07:55 AM
#27
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That road he was hit on is flat with shoulders, probably no street lights either. I looked on Google Street view.
03-01-15, 12:48 PM
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As much as I'm saddened by the loss of a fellow cyclist, riding in the dark without lights - that's just not smart. Lights from Wal-mart are as little as $10, so no excuse not to have them.
03-01-15, 12:52 PM
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PA law states that any car who rear ends another car is instantly at fault. A guy was killed near here, rear-ended, and the driver wasn't charged. No lights on his bike. Had he had lights...it may have been different. (PA law also requires a red light at night.)
Had he had lights. Bikes should come with lights.
Had he had lights. Bikes should come with lights.
The fact is... if myself or one of my loved ones was to accidently kill a cyclist I'd want a lawyer to do whatever could be done to keep the loved one... or myself out of jail. If a law about lights or even bells is the trick that works... so be it. On the other hand. As an avid cyclist if my life ends when someone runs me over (as opposed to sick in bed) I have no desire to see some accident destroy someone's life.
I have known people who were part of (or the cause of) an accidental death. The regret, remorse, nightmares... lasted the remainder of their often shorten life.
Any cyclist that doesn't realize the inherent risk of riding in traffic... probably shouldn't be in traffic. Those of us that do understand and have accepted the risks should be reminded by these posts that nothing has changed. We may become accustomed to the dangers. But we should never forget that these inherent risks are unavoidable. No device, law, thought process, habit, or magic spell will ever change the fragile, precious, and temporary nature of human life.
03-01-15, 02:11 PM
#31
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David Gabriel made a bad decision about going out at that time of night. With no lights.
But, As to whether, he is deceased, or not. He is not deceased.
But, As to whether, he is deceased, or not. He is not deceased.
03-01-15, 03:42 PM
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I will be commuting on route 20 from Ohio to PA and this road is mainly flat and 2 lanes in each direction with moderate traffic. My bike has large old school reflectors front, back, and on the wheels. I also have a front and rear LED light and one bright headlight. I also wear an orang and silver reflective vest. Even with all this, you need to be extra careful.
03-01-15, 03:52 PM
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I will be commuting on route 20 from Ohio to PA and this road is mainly flat and 2 lanes in each direction with moderate traffic. My bike has large old school reflectors front, back, and on the wheels. I also have a front and rear LED light and one bright headlight. I also wear an orange and silver reflective vest. Even with all this, you need to be extra careful.
03-01-15, 05:28 PM
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03-01-15, 06:03 PM
#36
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I have serious mixed feelings about those "safety equipment laws". There was a cyclist killed not far from here a few years ago. The cyclist had no "warning bell"... as required by city ordinance. So of course... no charges were fined. Almost across the street a 13 year(?) was killed by a driver who's car when over the sidewalk and hit the child. Of course... the city law requires children over 12 to ride in the street.
The fact is... if myself or one of my loved ones was to accidently kill a cyclist I'd want a lawyer to do whatever could be done to keep the loved one... or myself out of jail. If a law about lights or even bells is the trick that works... so be it. On the other hand. As an avid cyclist if my life ends when someone runs me over (as opposed to sick in bed) I have no desire to see some accident destroy someone's life.
I have known people who were part of (or the cause of) an accidental death. The regret, remorse, nightmares... lasted the remainder of their often shorten life.
Any cyclist that doesn't realize the inherent risk of riding in traffic... probably shouldn't be in traffic. Those of us that do understand and have accepted the risks should be reminded by these posts that nothing has changed. We may become accustomed to the dangers. But we should never forget that these inherent risks are unavoidable. No device, law, thought process, habit, or magic spell will ever change the fragile, precious, and temporary nature of human life.
The fact is... if myself or one of my loved ones was to accidently kill a cyclist I'd want a lawyer to do whatever could be done to keep the loved one... or myself out of jail. If a law about lights or even bells is the trick that works... so be it. On the other hand. As an avid cyclist if my life ends when someone runs me over (as opposed to sick in bed) I have no desire to see some accident destroy someone's life.
I have known people who were part of (or the cause of) an accidental death. The regret, remorse, nightmares... lasted the remainder of their often shorten life.
Any cyclist that doesn't realize the inherent risk of riding in traffic... probably shouldn't be in traffic. Those of us that do understand and have accepted the risks should be reminded by these posts that nothing has changed. We may become accustomed to the dangers. But we should never forget that these inherent risks are unavoidable. No device, law, thought process, habit, or magic spell will ever change the fragile, precious, and temporary nature of human life.
03-01-15, 08:07 PM
#37
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Both are not true.
First, there is a strong presumption that the car who rear ends another car is at fault, but the car in front *may* be found at fault.
For example - if the car in front had an inoperative license plate lamp - such a technical violation *WILL* *NOT* effect assignment of fault. But if a car pulls directly into the path of a car who can not reasonably yield - the car in front may be found at fault. (This finding is far more common now.)
But in PA a car who rear ends a bicycle is instantly, uh.... (I think we know who is too often found at fault, don't we?)
On bicycle equipment.
PA law does *NOT* require a rear lamp on a bicycle.
What is *REQUIRED*:
The following are *OPTIONAL*:
Finally, lamps may be mounted on the rider rather than the bicycle:
Riding a bicycle at night without a front lamp is a violation - but has almost no bearing on getting rear ended. Riding a bicycle at night without a rear lamp is *NOT* a violation. (It may be WISE to ride a bicycle at night with a rear lamp, but it's not required by PA law.)
-mr. bill
First, there is a strong presumption that the car who rear ends another car is at fault, but the car in front *may* be found at fault.
For example - if the car in front had an inoperative license plate lamp - such a technical violation *WILL* *NOT* effect assignment of fault. But if a car pulls directly into the path of a car who can not reasonably yield - the car in front may be found at fault. (This finding is far more common now.)
But in PA a car who rear ends a bicycle is instantly, uh.... (I think we know who is too often found at fault, don't we?)
On bicycle equipment.
PA law does *NOT* require a rear lamp on a bicycle.
What is *REQUIRED*:
The following are *OPTIONAL*:
Finally, lamps may be mounted on the rider rather than the bicycle:
Riding a bicycle at night without a front lamp is a violation - but has almost no bearing on getting rear ended. Riding a bicycle at night without a rear lamp is *NOT* a violation. (It may be WISE to ride a bicycle at night with a rear lamp, but it's not required by PA law.)
-mr. bill
I have both, most riders who ride at night around here have at least a tail blinker. (And there are quite a few this year. Last year I was one of maybe three winter riders. I like to think seeing a squashy chick riding both shamed and inspired this years large crop of regular non-bum riders!)
I have serious mixed feelings about those "safety equipment laws". There was a cyclist killed not far from here a few years ago. The cyclist had no "warning bell"... as required by city ordinance. So of course... no charges were fined. Almost across the street a 13 year(?) was killed by a driver who's car when over the sidewalk and hit the child. Of course... the city law requires children over 12 to ride in the street.
The fact is... if myself or one of my loved ones was to accidently kill a cyclist I'd want a lawyer to do whatever could be done to keep the loved one... or myself out of jail. If a law about lights or even bells is the trick that works... so be it. On the other hand. As an avid cyclist if my life ends when someone runs me over (as opposed to sick in bed) I have no desire to see some accident destroy someone's life.
I have known people who were part of (or the cause of) an accidental death. The regret, remorse, nightmares... lasted the remainder of their often shorten life.
Any cyclist that doesn't realize the inherent risk of riding in traffic... probably shouldn't be in traffic. Those of us that do understand and have accepted the risks should be reminded by these posts that nothing has changed. We may become accustomed to the dangers. But we should never forget that these inherent risks are unavoidable. No device, law, thought process, habit, or magic spell will ever change the fragile, precious, and temporary nature of human life.
The fact is... if myself or one of my loved ones was to accidently kill a cyclist I'd want a lawyer to do whatever could be done to keep the loved one... or myself out of jail. If a law about lights or even bells is the trick that works... so be it. On the other hand. As an avid cyclist if my life ends when someone runs me over (as opposed to sick in bed) I have no desire to see some accident destroy someone's life.
I have known people who were part of (or the cause of) an accidental death. The regret, remorse, nightmares... lasted the remainder of their often shorten life.
Any cyclist that doesn't realize the inherent risk of riding in traffic... probably shouldn't be in traffic. Those of us that do understand and have accepted the risks should be reminded by these posts that nothing has changed. We may become accustomed to the dangers. But we should never forget that these inherent risks are unavoidable. No device, law, thought process, habit, or magic spell will ever change the fragile, precious, and temporary nature of human life.
I don't think that a 'technicality' such as a lack of a light or bell should get someone out of trouble for their own negligence. A car going onto a sidewalk and killing ANYBODY is a crime. And anyone who drives should face charges for hitting ANY more venerable road user. At least they should get a tick on the license!!
And yeah, life is a dangerous enterprise. That doesn't mean we shouldn't expect that our actions, when they hurt others, shouldn't have consequences.
And as for the dangers of street riding.... this is why I am a fan of separated safe cycle lanes and tracks.
03-01-15, 09:54 PM
#38
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OMG death is preventable? I swear to God... I've never heard that before. I was under the impression that death could only be delayed.
I know what you really mean. You mean only those that lack your deft are condemned to expiration. That death comes from a failure of awareness... or non-compliance to rules or best practices. Let us agree to disagree on that.
I know what you really mean. You mean only those that lack your deft are condemned to expiration. That death comes from a failure of awareness... or non-compliance to rules or best practices. Let us agree to disagree on that.
03-26-15, 04:20 AM
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In the UK, the CTC (formerly Cyclists Touring Club) campaigned back in the 20s/30s against the requirement for cycles to have rear lamps on the grounds that it reduced the drivers' responsibilty to drive within the limits of their vision. This seems to be partly the view of the Pa legislation that only a suitable reflector is legally required.
Wearing my other hat as a driver, I have never had the experience of a cyclist ahead of me (and going in the same direction) suddenly appearing at a distance which made it impossible to avoid hitting them. This isn't to say that my experience is anything other than anecdotal, nor that circumstances might arise in which a driver has legitmate reason(s) for not seeing a cyclist.
In this instance, we just don't know.
Wearing my other hat as a driver, I have never had the experience of a cyclist ahead of me (and going in the same direction) suddenly appearing at a distance which made it impossible to avoid hitting them. This isn't to say that my experience is anything other than anecdotal, nor that circumstances might arise in which a driver has legitmate reason(s) for not seeing a cyclist.
In this instance, we just don't know.
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