Dave Cutter

You expect human's to.... just do as they're told (more or less) huh? That ain't gone'a happen. People will only behave as directed for as long (or as far) as they believe it to be in their own best interest.

I-Like-To-Bike

Nobody said that the A&S daydreamers of the good old days have any grasp of history or reality.

Chris516

You just legitimized, why I 'take the lane'. I have a 'taking the lane' interest.

Redhatter

I look at the roads around where I live and wonder how they could have been made for anything on wheels. Some of the streets around here are quite steep and narrow.

Perfect for something on hooves.

daihard 

I want roads configured so that the unlawful and dangerous behaviours of the motorists would be less likely to harm the more vulnerable users. That's one reason I support Mayor Murray's "Vision Zero" and "Move Seattle" initiatives.

genec

So you don't believe in the "jaywalk" story?

dynodonn 

Not so much the smell of manure, but the copious puddles of urine on a hot summer day. I laughed at an old photograph of life on a city street, before the automobile won out as the primary means of transportation in the US.
In the photograph, was a man with a very disdained look on his face as he walked past several horse drawn carts with large puddles of urine on the ground, and what appears to be on a hot summer day.

I-Like-To-Bike

I believe that alleged bicycle advocates who promote the "jaywalk" story, as well as the "hostile takeover" by the motor car story, and the evil "tyranny" of the motor car, the roads are here thanks to 1880-1890 cyclists story, as well as the joy of life in the early 1900's on the Lower East Side of NYC, will have themselves and anyone associated with them dismissed as, at best, silly-willy ideologues, if not moonbeam children.

kickstart

Q:
A:
My grandfather grew up before the advent of the automobile, and his recollections of the "good-ol-days" weren't that good. Propagating these naive fairy tales is an embarrassment, and an insult to ones intelligence.

kickstart

Dave Cutter

I understand why people create these false histories... as a means to legitimize their current or past actions.

Currently... DC based [cycling]lobbyist groups are funded with tax dollars for their efforts to get cycling advocacy projects funded. It is important that these groups “appear” legitimate... as a means to fund their own incomes. But very little research is required to disprove the purported history.

Associating true cyclists with nefarious DC-based fund raiding schemes is a disservice to those of us that ride bicycles.

genec

So how do you feel about motorists and their "we own the road" and "we pay road tax" and "get off the road" mentality?

howsteepisit

And creating who built the road stories from 100 years ago fights these attitudes how? This whole thread is at best academic.

I-Like-To-Bike

+1
Ludicrous and an embarrassment are two more terms that come to mind when "bicycling advocacy" threads are based on fairy tales.

howsteepisit

In many cases the term moronic comes to mind, but I don't want to insult unknown people too much.

I-Like-To-Bike

True, and assigning that term to the appropriate posts/posters would be seen as a violation of BF guidelines, regardless of its validity.

StanSeven

Last I checked the will of the majority is the way this country works

howsteepisit

In the US we have many many laws designed to protect the minority from the will of the majority. Ever consider why we use the representative form of government rather than just publicly voting on laws?

genec

Well for one thing, ensuring that those folks with the "we own the road" mentality fully understand that they DO NOT in fact own the road...

Various reports have shown that in most areas, the surface streets are built with local homeowners taxes and fees... therefore motorists do not OWN the road... and that myth should be dispelled.

spare_wheel

As is arguing that USAnian jaywalking laws were not created for and by advocates of motoring. The term does not even exist in europe.

BBC News - Jaywalking: How the car industry outlawed crossing the road

howsteepisit

That cyclists did or did not have anything to do with paving roads circa 1900 is irrelevant to any motorist in 2015 that believes that cyclists do not have a legal right to road use. In fact, IMHO making that claim to the average motorist will do nothing more than to create a attitude of marginalizing those "nut job" cyclists.

I have no issue with dispelling the false notion that paying more of any type of tax entitles a users to a greater piece of the road, but ranting about events in the early 1900's will have no effect in furthering that goal.

Edit: GeneC -or do sincerely believe that by virtue of cyclists clamoring for paving in the early 1900's have a greater claim to roads than any other user?

howsteepisit

The origin of the term jaywalking surely has massive persuasive power over those who feel they own the roads. While this may be greatly persuasive to those anti-auto zealots, I cannot see any use of this to the average population.

Cyclosaurus

That is a common, but untrue belief of simpletons. Many of our most basic rights and freedoms are protections from the will of the majority. Freedom of speech is needed in order for people to be able to express unpopular ideas. Similarly for religion, etc. Do you really believe that if a majority of people wanted to legalize slavery again, or deny Asian-Americans the right to vote, that this would be OK?

genec

No one has a greater claim... showing the history of the roads and dispelling the myths of "road tax" are merely to dissuade the road hog ideals of some motorists.

The fact is we are all just people... period... using different modes to get from A to B... no one has exclusive rights to the PUBLIC roads.

I-Like-To-Bike

So in Europe, "jaywalking" is called something else in some other language. BFD!

In my experience, anti-jaywalking (or whatever it is called) regulations are enforced more rigidly in Western Europe than in it is in any Eastern or Midwestern U.S. city.