michaelm101

I'm 160lbs and the carbon frame in question is spec'd to handle 20lbs on the front rack, 25lbs on the rear. My other bike has 36H wheels and they have been very reliable on pavement, some light off road...

However, with only a 45lb add-on capability for this bike (205lbs total) is 36H really necessary?

The reason I ask is I'm seeking Shimano Deore XT hubs for their universal serviceability, but I can't find 36H in 12mm Thru x 142mm.

Thanks as always, in advance!

fietsbob

36 rear is safe.. 32 front .. if either ts bent spares wont be hard to find..

seeker333

You probably need 36h wheels more than you need through axles.

I googled "12mm 36h" and 3 of the 4 top hits revealed the hub you seek is supplied by Shimano, Hope and CK. Let me know if you need any more help googling.

https://www.modernbike.com/shimano-r...ack-and-silver

michaelm101

Unfortunately, this frame was equipped with a T/A setup.
Yes, and thanks. I got that Shimano 770 hub in my search - just didn't know where in the Shimano "group" line it was (Deore, Ultegra, etc...). Confusing, to say the least. Perhaps, smarter marketing staff?

CliffordK

According to this page, the RS770 is the Ultegra level... so pretty good.
Your complete guide to Shimano wheels | road.cc

And the prices seem to reflect that.

I'm seeing a bit cheaper prices on E-Bay and Amazon (no skewers).

@fietsbob is probably right, 36 for the rear, and 32 is probably adequate for the front, but I'd probably go ahead and do 36/36 for a little added redundancy.

staehpj1

Personally I'd consider 32 spokes in back and 24 in front to be adequate for that kind of load. I have toured without issues with a 32/24 spoke count and a total rider/gear weight that exceeded your stated load.

There are lots of riders who weigh 205 or more and you don't often see road bikes with more spokes than that. Most have fewer spokes. My road bike has a 24/20 spoke count and I have happily ridden many thousands of trouble free miles on it at a similar body weight to your total load. I wouldn't hesitate to tour with an ultralight (15 pounds of ultralight backpacking gear and clothing) packing style on that bike.

djb

what frame is it (more curious) but more importantly, what tire widths are you thinking of using?
I ask because from experience, wider tires aka lower pressures will always be a help to the amount of shock going into a wheelset.
Ive toured a lot with about that weight of load, but weigh 25lbs less than you do, on 26in wheels with 32 spokes, but with 2in 50mm tires that have very good "give" , doing the suspension effect thing well.
caveat, smaller 26in wheels have always been said to be slightly stronger than a 700 wheel, because of the shorter spokes.

without getting into the searching for t/a hubs with 36 issue, I guess if you cant find them, a very well made 32sp wheel with a very good rim, tensioned by a good wheel person , sounds like it would work properly for you--especially if tire pressure is taken into account AND how you ride, ie being a bit more conscientious of not whacking over rough stuff hard.
On this topic, not hitting stuff hard, Ive found that with disc brakes on my bike, my first with discs, that I can much more effectively brake hard to slow down for unexpected holes or whatever, compared to rim brakes, therefore avoiding or reducing an unexpected "oh crap--whack" moment, which is really going to be the hardest thing on a wheelset.

thats my take on this anyway--and somewhat supported by some of the heavier riders personal experience here , vis a vis actual rider weight and what they ride with a given load.

djb

oh, and I would add, you know when you are about to hit an unexpected pothole or whatever and cant quite slow down enough, the technique of braking like gangbusters until the last millisecond, then standing on both pedals and unweighting the bike as much as you can JUST as the bike impacts, also reduces a great amount of weight going into the wheelset.

Ive always considered this completely natural, like breathing, but am always intrigued by witnessing riders who do not do it and ride full tilt seated into rough things or over slight drops.

Brian25

Part of the equasion here is touring duration. How long a tour are you planning? If you are talking about just talking about overnighters, I would not sweat it. I do not know where you get the idea that anything less than an XT hub is less than universally seviceable somehow??? Cone wrenches fit hubs.

clasher

I weigh more than you and your load put together and I did a credit card tour on a carbon bike with a 24 spoke (F/R) wheelset, with 28mm tires. I was probably 240lb all loaded up. Hit a couple huge potholes without any damage to my wheel. The wheels were hand finished and stress relieved by experience builders so that probably helps. I think metallurgy has advanced quite a bit and rims are much stronger these days than when 36 spoke wheels were the norm, also my experience taking apart wheels at the co-op has shown that old rims are quite soft and easy to break whereas most modern rims require much energy to break. I tend to ride much like djb suggests in that I'm gentle on the wheels when I ride. I have close to 10,000km on these wheels now and the bearings still feel smooth but they are cartridge. New shimano hubs should have a similar service interval unless they get pressure washed or something extreme.

fietsbob

Or Just bring enough resources to replace anything that fails on the tour,

and use what you have, until it fails or is damaged..

staehpj1

Enough resources ($) to replace anything is always a good idea.
My usual approach.

manapua_man

I weigh more than both you and your load and I get by fine with 32 rear 28 front on my road bike when I go credit card touring. How well the wheels hold up is probably going to have more to do with how well they're built, where you ride, and how hard you are on your equipment.

fietsbob

Its touring season on the coast, really going to be busy when the TransAm trail racers hit town end of the month,

Most on expensive carbon bikes, that they may not have an idea about repairing on the road..

& Show up less than ready .. and asking about stuff to buy, at the last minute, they saw on the internet.

that no one, who lives here year around, needs.. so is not here on spec.



...

seeker333

Given pricing, you may want to look at Hope instead of Shimano. The cup/cone/balls do wear out on Shimano hubs after some time (or very short time if hub is submersed at a water crossing), and at this point you must rebuild the wheel. With Hope hub you can replace cartridge bearings (with special tool) and avoid wheel rebuild. Same goes for CK but their price is usually absurdly high. Be advised Hope and CK hubs' freehub mechanism is very buzzy (noisy) relative to Shimano when coasting.

Yes, at 160 lbs you can get by without 36h - I think 32h would be fine (or even 28h) if the wheel was designed/built well. However, if you're going to build a touring wheelset (dynamo hub sought in other thread) you may as well do it right and go 36h (the most spokes you can generally find a rim for).

michaelm101

This bike is the Diamondback Haanjo EXP carbon. I fell in love with the geometry and its understated looks and I went carbon due to it's weight and vibration dampening characteristics. I'm a long time tennis player / coach who witnessed the impact of graphite/carbon fiber on the game of tennis having played both wood and metal frames in the 1970s.

It's considered a bikepacker and has a 3x9 drivetrain. I plan on riding 50% or more on pavement/road shoulder - commuting/utility. The rest will be on & off road light touring locally and in Southeast Asia in 2019.

I had a near fatal crash in a hit & run in late 2016 and my riding strategy has entirely changed.

Much of my riding is "loaded utility" where I often transcend from road to rough shoulder and back. I also find myself having to quickly get onto sidewalk and parking lot areas where I must immediately try and square my front tire with the 1-2" high driveway apron entry. I have a BMX mountain biking background since childhood, so although I'm conscious of things that may have an impact on the longevity of my wheels/spokes (no pun intended), I'm confident and skilled in maneuvers that I need to execute to avoid hazardous situations, however rough they may be.

I do avoid jumping curbs while loaded, at all costs, however... I plan on running 32-42 mm tires. Thx!

djb

re a crappy hit and run, here's a suggestion--a helmet or sunglasses mounted mirror, like the Take-a-Look

Take-A-Look Mirror | TravellingTwo: Bicycle Touring Around The World

I come from a motorcycle "defensive driving at all times" backgroiund mindset, and the super fast glance at my mirror right near my eye, without having to look down at the hoods area (where I have had mirrors in the past) or bar ends or whatever, is a real time saver. Super fast checks, just a glance of your eyes, and the flat mirror gives a non distorted view that can be shifted to diff areas with a slight turn of the head (like in a curve for instance, a slight turn and you can see the car you hear coming into the corner behind you to see if they are too close to the shoulder where you are.)

anyway , consider trying one, they give you a heads up , that second or three that can make all the diff and can make you a lot more relaxed. Any mirror makes you more relaxed, but this one gives real world timing and viewpoint advantages, in my opinion from using one for ages now.

as a bmx'er, then you know all about bike handling and body position etc.
I commute on 35mm tires, and even they have a nice cush to them which helps with rough pavement, of which I ride over a crapload of each day here in Montreal.

re southeast Asia--if you dont know, the drivers there are pretty nutso, a free for all in most countries--not from personal experience, but from a touring partner who spent a lot of time travelling there by bike a few years ago. Look up Crazy guy on a bike , blogs on the countries you are interested in, to get some more real tourer takes on stuff.

michaelm101

Thanks for the tip on the mirror. I use a Third Eye on all my bikes. Indeed, I have to glance downward, but I've heard horror stories about rider's eyes being impaled in forward / endo crashes using helmet mounted mirrors. When I was hit, I had three hotshots blazing on the rear of my bike. I think the driver was either texting / or hit me intentionally being angered by my blazing red entourage...RE: S.E.A- I traveled there extensively on biz back in the 80's. It was a free-for-all! It's probably even worse now...

Tourist in MSN

I am not going to suggest number of spokes because that in part is dependent on your rim choice. But I see no reason to keep the same number of spokes on the front as the rear. When I built up my Lynskey Backroad this past spring I used 36 rear and 32 front, both front and rear have Dyad rims. I had not even thought about number of spokes for the front until I found that the dynohub I wanted was out of stock in 36, but on sale in 32, so I thought about it for a couple minutes and bought the 32 hole hub since the rims were available in both 32 and 36.

Someone above made teh comment that they weighed more than you and your gear will weigh. But if you see a bump coming, you can use your knees as a shock absorber but the load on your bike has minimal shock absorbsion. Thus, I think the weight of the bike and load combined is a more critical factor in deciding on wheel strength than comparing that against the weight of the rider.

I use the Third Eye mirror that clamps onto my helmet visor. I had a bad crash several years ago, the mirror was broken and the plastic shaft on the mirror snapped. I always wear glasses to keep the bugs out of my eyes, I think the lens of the glasses is stronger than the plastic shaft on the mirror. I like that the mirror clamp can be unthreaded to remove the mirror from the helmet for when I travel.

djb

re eye injuries, I too always wear glasses for bugs, clear ones at night, so I figure this will help, but like most things in life, one evaluates the risk of stuff happening and goes from there and decides.
re the car that hit you, who the hell knows eh? and you'll never know. I do now use my rear flashers more in a slight downward tilt to reduce flashing in a drivers eyes, I drive a car too and can see how at a stop light it could be annoying a bit, and a slight downward tilt doesnt reallly take away from the "notice me Im a bike" duty of a good flasher.

and anyway, whether it was a pyschopath who intentionally did it, or someone who did the "you go where you look" thing by accident, we'll never know.

unfortunately though, every day commuting, I see people texting andn looking at their phones, this is a real serious issue now, and the fines have been increased greatly here in Ontario and Quebec, Canada., and I figure is the only way to reduce this, although like I said, it is still very very common, sadly---I figure your case has way more chances that it was texting just from the number of accidents caused nowadays by distracted driving and texting and phones, the police here are pretty clear on how the numbers show this.