7 degree upward tilt on Brooks b17?
#1
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From: harrisburg, pennsylvania
Bikes: 1976 Schwinn Super Le Tour, tricked out with modern components. Shimano Alfine 11 internal gear hub. Dynamo hub. Titanium racks and bottle cages. Mercier Kilo Wide Tire dropbar singlespeed
7 degree upward tilt on Brooks b17?
I didn't get any replies on the fitting forum, so I'll post here. Sorry for redundancy.
First, the facts. Been riding the same sports-touring 4130 tradition frame for 39 years. Got my first Brooks 2,000 miles ago. It's the B-17 Imperial (cutout) mounted on a Flyer sprung frame (custom mount done by a Brooks certified shop) Traditional drop bars about 3.5 inches higher than sit-bone contact point on saddle (to ease by aging shoulders and neck). Stem length set to my liking.
I have been riding it these 2,000 miles with about a 2 or 3 degree upward tilt when measure from tip of saddle to back of saddle down the dead center. On rides of 50 miles and longer, and in particular on multi-day tours of 65 to 85 miles/day over 6 days or so, I get pretty raw chafing on my sit bone area. Just a little outward from my sit bones. I broke the saddle in carefully using Proofhide applied sparingly, according to Brooks suggestions. I slightly retention the saddle after it broke in and began to sag a wee bit, and the skirt is laced properly.
A few days ago, the setback seatpost (that Kalloy Uno model that seems to offer the most setback available) loosened a bit and the seat post adjustment teeth allowed the clamp to shift so that the nose rose. I immediately felt considerably more comfortable. However, when I got off and looked at it, the upward tilt of the nose concerned me, since that is not seen so much on the typical bikes and saddles of today compared to when I was a kid and lots of people rode traditional leather saddle brands. I adjusted it back to the 2 or 3 degree tilt that it had before, and I felt less comfortable but thought I was doing the right thing. I should note, too, that when adjusted with just 2 or 3 degrees upward tilt, I have more hand pressure than I want, and less hand pressure when the nose is tilted higher.
I now have adjusted it temporarily to where it seems to feel very comfortable, and it is at a 7 degree nose-up tilt, carefully measured. I understand that the back of the saddle where the sit bones touch falls on a slightly ramped-down section of the saddle, so the effective tilt of that section is not 7 degrees upward, but probably closer to level where my bones contact.
7 degrees looks pretty heavily tilted. I have not yet ridden longer miles at the 7 degree tilt, fearing for my secret parts. At age 52 I do not dare damage my secret parts due to nerve/tissue pressure that might result from this 7 degree upward tilt. But I don't really feel pressure there on shorter rides.
Long build up to question: for my sports-touring traditional frame geometry with bars 3.5 inches higher than the sit-bone contact point of the saddle, does a 7 degree upward tilt seem extreme? I ride in the drops only for short times on long-day rides when I need some variation in hand position or when going faster downhill. I am mostly on the hoods (integrated shifters) and sometimes the tops. Has anybody created any sort of rule of thumb acceptable range displayed according to other variables of fit?
Back to the chafing. Yes, I have tried numerous brands of chamois cream and bag balm, applied either before and during rides, or after chafing manifests, and have found no magic there. I have found, though, that zinc oxide cream is a wonderful soother after chafing happens. After a long sweaty 80 mile day in the saddle, if I apply it overnight with big bandages over the area to keep the cream moist and in place, I am significantly better by morning, although another long hot 80 mile day the next day causes trouble again. I like zinc oxide cream, but hope that trying this higher upward tilt might prevent chafing.
First, the facts. Been riding the same sports-touring 4130 tradition frame for 39 years. Got my first Brooks 2,000 miles ago. It's the B-17 Imperial (cutout) mounted on a Flyer sprung frame (custom mount done by a Brooks certified shop) Traditional drop bars about 3.5 inches higher than sit-bone contact point on saddle (to ease by aging shoulders and neck). Stem length set to my liking.
I have been riding it these 2,000 miles with about a 2 or 3 degree upward tilt when measure from tip of saddle to back of saddle down the dead center. On rides of 50 miles and longer, and in particular on multi-day tours of 65 to 85 miles/day over 6 days or so, I get pretty raw chafing on my sit bone area. Just a little outward from my sit bones. I broke the saddle in carefully using Proofhide applied sparingly, according to Brooks suggestions. I slightly retention the saddle after it broke in and began to sag a wee bit, and the skirt is laced properly.
A few days ago, the setback seatpost (that Kalloy Uno model that seems to offer the most setback available) loosened a bit and the seat post adjustment teeth allowed the clamp to shift so that the nose rose. I immediately felt considerably more comfortable. However, when I got off and looked at it, the upward tilt of the nose concerned me, since that is not seen so much on the typical bikes and saddles of today compared to when I was a kid and lots of people rode traditional leather saddle brands. I adjusted it back to the 2 or 3 degree tilt that it had before, and I felt less comfortable but thought I was doing the right thing. I should note, too, that when adjusted with just 2 or 3 degrees upward tilt, I have more hand pressure than I want, and less hand pressure when the nose is tilted higher.
I now have adjusted it temporarily to where it seems to feel very comfortable, and it is at a 7 degree nose-up tilt, carefully measured. I understand that the back of the saddle where the sit bones touch falls on a slightly ramped-down section of the saddle, so the effective tilt of that section is not 7 degrees upward, but probably closer to level where my bones contact.
7 degrees looks pretty heavily tilted. I have not yet ridden longer miles at the 7 degree tilt, fearing for my secret parts. At age 52 I do not dare damage my secret parts due to nerve/tissue pressure that might result from this 7 degree upward tilt. But I don't really feel pressure there on shorter rides.
Long build up to question: for my sports-touring traditional frame geometry with bars 3.5 inches higher than the sit-bone contact point of the saddle, does a 7 degree upward tilt seem extreme? I ride in the drops only for short times on long-day rides when I need some variation in hand position or when going faster downhill. I am mostly on the hoods (integrated shifters) and sometimes the tops. Has anybody created any sort of rule of thumb acceptable range displayed according to other variables of fit?
Back to the chafing. Yes, I have tried numerous brands of chamois cream and bag balm, applied either before and during rides, or after chafing manifests, and have found no magic there. I have found, though, that zinc oxide cream is a wonderful soother after chafing happens. After a long sweaty 80 mile day in the saddle, if I apply it overnight with big bandages over the area to keep the cream moist and in place, I am significantly better by morning, although another long hot 80 mile day the next day causes trouble again. I like zinc oxide cream, but hope that trying this higher upward tilt might prevent chafing.
#3
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Joined: Aug 2011
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From: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Quit worrying about how it looks. Just ride it, and that will tell you if you have anything to worry about.
#4
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,767
Likes: 85
If you go to the late Sheldon Brown's website, you'll see some interesting angles on the Brooks saddles he had on his bikes. All my own Brooks saddles (I think I have six or seven of them) look excessively tilted upward depending on the angle at which you look.
The fact that your handlebars are the height they are above the seat itself, plus the fact you seem to have found the comfort sweet spot suggests to me that you should now leave it alone and enjoy your riding!
The fact that your handlebars are the height they are above the seat itself, plus the fact you seem to have found the comfort sweet spot suggests to me that you should now leave it alone and enjoy your riding!
#6
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,056
Likes: 166
From: Mountain Brook. AL
Re the crotch chafing, a look at the contents of most creams shows they are mostly water, you have more than enough water
in the crotch from sweat so using a topical that is mostly vaseline is a prudent move. Like sunscreen, the key is very liberal
application, with on bike replenishment a good idea.
in the crotch from sweat so using a topical that is mostly vaseline is a prudent move. Like sunscreen, the key is very liberal
application, with on bike replenishment a good idea.
#7
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 30,225
Likes: 649
From: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Such experimentation is much better than reading a book or manual because the process teaches you what the various adjustments do to you. Even the bad adjustments are beneficial because you are learning through the process.
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My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#8
Re the crotch chafing, a look at the contents of most creams shows they are mostly water, you have more than enough water
in the crotch from sweat so using a topical that is mostly vaseline is a prudent move. Like sunscreen, the key is very liberal
application, with on bike replenishment a good idea.
in the crotch from sweat so using a topical that is mostly vaseline is a prudent move. Like sunscreen, the key is very liberal
application, with on bike replenishment a good idea.
#10
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Cyclist0812
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