I am trying to learn about 11 x 2 drivetrains and I am getting a bit confused. I have a 4 year old Tarmac carbon frame and I would love to go to either Shimano or Sram 11 speed system.

I am getting that it may not fit my frame, I will need new wheels, etc.

What is the real deal? I expect I will need to buy a complete group, brakes, shifters,chain, crank, cassette, the works and I am ready for that.

Will my frame work? Wheels too?

Thanks for the upcoming advice

Mike

.. its faster, man, it goes to 11


Buying all that stuff retail will cost close to just buying a New Bike..

Wheels built in the last 4 yrs are 11 spd compatible (assuming they have Shimano splining and not Campy). Brakes can be kept. The minimum is new brifters/cassette
but it is not a bad idea to change the chain/crankset and maybe the deraillers. It will work without doing so but not as well. Assumption also that you are not going
beyond 11-32 on the cassette. Bigger cassettes make the changeover much more expensive. As to the frame, almost any frame in the past 20 yrs conservatively
will take 11 spd.

You may want to check that for your specific wheel, most hubs pre 2013 weren't 11 speed compatible, and unless you have a brand which supplies aftermarket freehubs, most aren't updateable.

For Campagnolo, these have been 11 speed compatible since they went to 9 speed, as the freehub spec hasn't changed


,

First, 11 speed for the sake of it is stupid, you spend a small fortune and gain nothing that will make you any faster, or save any appreciable weight.

For current model year parts, you need completely new components save for brakes, and maybe the crankset.

Unless you you have mavic hubs, you need an 11 speed specific hub for shimano splined cassettes. Mavic hubs have been wider than necessary and used a spacer for some time. Campy hubs are the same size for 9/10/11 speed. You can actually use any make cassette on an 11 speed drivetrain, the spacing difference is too close to matter.

the hub itself is still 130mm, so it will fit in your rear triangle, but the small cog may be uncomfortably close to the chainstay.

Why? you can't by high end 10 speed anymore (on new bikes, and when stock is sold out in stores that will be it), and 11 speed is cheaper new than 10 speed was.

For the crank, you can use a 10 speed crank on a 11 or 9 speed setup

It's stupid because the OP already has a functional 10 speed system. All you get for your money is another cog, which translates to slightly tighter spacing somewhere in the cassette, probably a 1 tooth jump rather than a 2 tooth jump. Given that 11 speed requires a new groupset and new wheels, you'd be spending at least 2/3 if not more, the cost of a new 11 speed equipped bike, but still end up with a four year old frame. To me, that wouldn't be worth it unless you plan to buy a frameset later to transfer the parts to. If you like the bike you have then ride it, adding a cog will have an imperceptible impact on your ride.

when it does break, that's the time to consider upgrades.

I'm more interested in Di2 than an 11th cog, myself

Cant say I'm interested in electric shifting beyond "hm, neat". For my riding it would never do, I've been saved by the ability to fix something roadside too many times.

If you've ridden it, I'd expect more enthusiasm... it's bloody brilliant. As for reliability, by all accounts it's pretty well sorted, and battery life is epic.

What cheeses me off is all the needless incompatibility in software; MTB stuff can't plug and play with road stuff, 11s won't fly with 10s, etc. I'm pretty keen to get hold of a couple of Di2 derailers and control them with an Arduino.

I ride in the Brevard NC area frequently and have my Tarmac set up as a triple. I was on a hill with a guy the other day and we figured out his low gear, using a Sram 2 x 11 has the exact same low gear as my Ultegra triple group. Now, I realize I can get that low gear with a Shimano 2 x 10 but the 11's are coming and I thought I would jump on at this point.

Not everyone agrees I can see that.

It may be more cost effective to buy a new(er) bike all set up with an 11 speed.

I don't think it's "stupid" to change stuff just because you want to try something different. It's a hobby and it's your money. New 105 groups are cheap from UK and if you get the 32t cassette you may end up with an easier gear. The rear wheel could be a problem but I think you can mount 10 cogs of the 11 speed cassette to the older 8/9/10 freehubs. There are other work-arounds if you search.

The new ergonomics of the Sram Red 11s shifters are flipping fantastic too.

That's just not true. Right now, 9 speed parts are available for a small fraction of what 10 speed and 11 speed parts cost. Within a couple of years, this will be the situation for 10 speed parts.

I just did a 9x3 build because the parts cost me about half of what a 10x2 or 11x2 build would have, and the functionality is better - wider overall gearing range, along with narrow spacing of the gears.

If doing what I like is stupid, then color me willfully stupid. I converted a 1998 KHS AeroComp (steel) to Ultegra 6800 complete..including wheels...even put a carbon fork on it...spent way more money on it that the thing is worth... I ride the hell out of it and enjoy every moment...at my age I simply do not give a crap what anyone else thinks...if it makes me happy, so be it...I just lied, I do care what the wife thinks, thankfully she thinks I should do what I enjoy.

I would definately consider changing from a triple to a double but consider the investment after selling your old bike and replacing it with a new one that is set up the way you want already. You might come out ahead in the end since it will be 100% new and more of the parts will be covered under warranty.

What level are you talking about? the OP has a Specialized Tarmac, which would indicate that they are going to be putting at a minimum 105 (in Shimano terms) level groupset on it. Apart from 4700 there is no other current 10 speed groupset from Shimano, and that's they way it will be in a few years, possibly with Sora level being the only 10 speed in a few years.

Anything a 105 level or up now is 11 speed only, this (both 5800 & 6800) came on the the market at a low price than 5700 or 6700 did, the only thing that you need in looking at these groupsets is a 11 speed compatible wheel, otherwise there is little reason (unless you need a triple) to try to search out 10 speed which is becoming obsolete at the high end.

For cost cutting, I recently put together a 5800/6800 mix bike, careful purchase kept the cost down, subbing the 5800 crank for the 6800 covered the RD, BB & chain for the same cost as the 6800 crank. For functionality, ride a 11 speed bike, especally the front shifter and STI hadn feel, and you may find that it's better than lower spec bikes (or wait till 4700 comes out which has the same basic FD design as 11 speed groupsets)

I never said anything about buying new parts. I bought a mix of used and new parts bought opportunistically. My 9 speed build was a mix of Dura Ace, Ultegra, and a tripleized Campy Record crank. The only new parts were the Dura Ace downtube STI shifters, the chainrings for the Campy crank, and the chain. And my 27 speed bike shifts perfectly front and rear, and has better spacing and wider range than I'd have gotten with 11x2 gearing. Other than the frame - which was a Japanese-made Schwinn Paramount Series 7 that cost me $120, My most expensive parts on the bike were the tripleized Campy record crank ($35 for the crank arms, $40 for the 3 chainrings and bolts) and $67 for the Dura Ace shifters. My total parts bill including the wheels was under $375 plus the frame.

I've got 23 useful gears that I use, and very few double shifts to get the gear I want. With 11x2, I'd have 20 at most.

And BTW, If Shimano sells 10 speed SORA new in 3 years, it will be functionally identical to the last generation of Ultegra that they made. That's what they did in 9 speed.

Kinda me right now. I see myself with whole new bike at this point. I do like to do the build myself however and that was why I was asking about 11 speeds and compatibility with wheels and frames.
I have yet to own a Sram anything and I would like to get a Sram red group and find a nice light frame to hang it on, looking for internal cables as well.

There is no way I am at the level to justify a bike like this but I just want one.