Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Cone Wrenches too thick?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Cone Wrenches too thick?

Old 07-31-15, 10:18 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 1,511

Bikes: '92 22" Cannondale M2000, '92 Cannondale R1000 Tandem, another modern Canndondale tandem, Two Holy Grail '86 Cannondale ST800s 27" (68.5cm) Touring bike w/Superbe Pro components and Phil Wood hubs. A bunch of other 27" ST frames & bikes.

Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Cone Wrenches too thick?

I thought cone wrenches were cone wrenches. I have a couple of LIFO cone wrenches. Weird cone wrenches in that each end is double cut so one side will work for 15mm and then more recessed for 13mm. The other side is 14mm/16mm.

Well the strange thing is I'm having trouble getting both cone wrenches on the same side of the hub. One on the cone, the other on the outer locknut. Its a 6500 Ultegra front hub. Did cone width narrow or something, or are my old LIFO wrenches just worthless for being too thick?
mtnbke is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 07:23 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Likes: 0
Liked 1,099 Times in 745 Posts
Shimano locknuts are almost all 17 mm so if your largest wrench is 16 mm, that may explain it.
HillRider is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 07:27 AM
  #3  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,937

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Liked 3,548 Times in 2,007 Posts
Try a different brand of cone wrench. I have cone wrenches from VAR, Campagnolo, Hozan, and ATD. Some fit some hubs better than others.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 09:09 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Morris County, NJ
Posts: 1,102

Bikes: 90's Bianchi Premio, Raleigh-framed fixed gear, Trek 3500, Centurion hybrid, Dunelt 3-spd, Trek 800

Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Are you trying to adjust the cone while the wheel is on the bike? I take off the wheel to do the adjustment. This allows me to use a cone wrench on the cone and any wrench, regardless of thickness, on the lock nut. My cone wrench is a Sunlite combination CW, lock ring tool, and chain whip. It's 4mm thick and works great. I use an ordinary adjustable wrench (or any wrench with the correct jaw opening) on the lock nut.

FWIW, I check for proper adjustment by twirling the axle ends while the wheel stands on the floor. I loosen one lock nut and manually tighten the cone until the bearings rumble a bit. It's felt in the fingers. I then back off until the rumbling goes away but I can't feel play in the axle. Then I tighten the lock nut and reinstall the wheel. It pays to check the bearings again by feel after some riding. (I believe this is all per Sheldon Brown.)

Properly adjusted, a mounted front wheel will have zero free play but can be spun manually and continue spinning by itself for a couple of minutes. You'll get tired of waiting for it to stop.

Last edited by habilis; 08-01-15 at 09:28 AM.
habilis is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 10:01 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Likes: 0
Liked 1,099 Times in 745 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Try a different brand of cone wrench. I have cone wrenches from VAR, Campagnolo, Hozan, and ATD. Some fit some hubs better than others.
None of these will make any difference if the OP's wrench is too small for the locknut.
HillRider is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 11:29 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 1,511

Bikes: '92 22" Cannondale M2000, '92 Cannondale R1000 Tandem, another modern Canndondale tandem, Two Holy Grail '86 Cannondale ST800s 27" (68.5cm) Touring bike w/Superbe Pro components and Phil Wood hubs. A bunch of other 27" ST frames & bikes.

Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Maybe my first post wasn't clear enough. I have the exact size cone wrenches needed. Ultegra 6500 hubs...there isn't enough room to get both cone wrenches on at the same time. The outer locknut can only fit a cone wrench, not a regular wrench. Seems insane my thin cone wrenhes are "too thick."
mtnbke is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 11:50 AM
  #7  
aka: Dr. Cannondale
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,817
Liked 3,672 Times in 1,264 Posts
Agreed, they should fit.

Are they flat wrenches, or do they offset slightly? My older Spin Doctor wrenches had the small/large nut opening thing like these, but would only fit one way on the wheel. They would interfere with each other if one was backwards/upside down. If your wrenches are flat, then it sounds like you'll need to buy thinner ones. I replaced mine with Park double ended ones, a pair of 13/14 and a pair of 15/16.
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
rccardr is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 01:17 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Morris County, NJ
Posts: 1,102

Bikes: 90's Bianchi Premio, Raleigh-framed fixed gear, Trek 3500, Centurion hybrid, Dunelt 3-spd, Trek 800

Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by mtnbke
Maybe my first post wasn't clear enough. I have the exact size cone wrenches needed. Ultegra 6500 hubs...there isn't enough room to get both cone wrenches on at the same time. The outer locknut can only fit a cone wrench, not a regular wrench. Seems insane my thin cone wrenhes are "too thick."
Not to belabor this, but are you adjusting the cones with the wheel on the bike? If so, please see my previous post. If there is an advantage to doing it with the wheel installed, I'm afraid I don't see it. My lock nuts are also narrow (about 4mm), but it doesn't prevent the use of a thicker wrench.
habilis is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 04:49 PM
  #9  
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
 
SquidPuppet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Coeur d' Alene
Posts: 7,861

Bikes: 3 Chinese Gas Pipe Nerdcycles and 2 Chicago Electroforged Boat Anchors

Liked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by mtnbke
Maybe my first post wasn't clear enough. I have the exact size cone wrenches needed. Ultegra 6500 hubs...there isn't enough room to get both cone wrenches on at the same time. The outer locknut can only fit a cone wrench, not a regular wrench. Seems insane my thin cone wrenhes are "too thick."
Since the locknut is outboard, ANY thickness wrench will fit. Remove wheel from bike.
SquidPuppet is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 05:04 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 241
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
To OP, yes I have had this issue with those cheaper wrenches you find in tool kits. You can lightly grind some of the side of the cone down, if you don't mind the cosmetics.

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
Since the locknut is outboard, ANY thickness wrench will fit. Remove wheel from bike.
No. On new and higher end Shimano hubs, particularly this Ultegra hub, the outer locknut has an outside flange. The cone wrench has to fit between the flange and the spacer.
Jamminatrix is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 05:06 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,660
Liked 171 Times in 138 Posts
Get a pair of Park wrenches that are the right size. You have a new and improved hub that has the wrench flats adjacent to each other.
davidad is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 05:13 PM
  #12  
Calamari Marionette Ph.D
 
SquidPuppet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Coeur d' Alene
Posts: 7,861

Bikes: 3 Chinese Gas Pipe Nerdcycles and 2 Chicago Electroforged Boat Anchors

Liked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by Jamminatrix
To OP, yes I have had this issue with those cheaper wrenches you find in tool kits. You can lightly grind some of the side of the cone down, if you don't mind the cosmetics.


No. On new and higher end Shimano hubs, particularly this Ultegra hub, the outer locknut has an outside flange. The cone wrench has to fit between the flange and the spacer.
Thanks for the correction.
SquidPuppet is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 05:14 PM
  #13  
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 45,651

Bikes: everywhere

Liked 8,236 Times in 4,387 Posts
Originally Posted by Jamminatrix
No. On new and higher end Shimano hubs, particularly this Ultegra hub, the outer locknut has an outside flange. The cone wrench has to fit between the flange and the spacer.
Yep. Pretty tight in there.

https://wheelsmfg.com/tech/PDF/hub/hb-6500.pdf

In emergencies I sometimes just hammer the cone wrenches out after I'm done locking them down. I'm not sure if I should file my wrenches down or just get rid of those wheels with locknuts that have fewer than six flats on 'em

Or maybe I'll just get tiny washers between cones and locknuts. .5mm on each side

Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 08-01-15 at 05:19 PM.
LesterOfPuppets is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 05:20 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656

Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!

Likes: 0
Liked 1,099 Times in 745 Posts
Originally Posted by mtnbke
Maybe my first post wasn't clear enough. I have the exact size cone wrenches needed. Ultegra 6500 hubs...there isn't enough room to get both cone wrenches on at the same time. The outer locknut can only fit a cone wrench, not a regular wrench. Seems insane my thin cone wrenches are "too thick."
OK, 6500 hubs and their contemporary Dura Ace 77000-series hubs did indeed require two cone wrenches as the locknuts had thin flats like the cones. The front hub required a 13 mm cone wrench on the cone and a 14 mm cone wrench for the locknuts while the rear hub required 14 mm cone wrenches for both. I've used Park cone wrenches on my 7700 hubs with no problems. I'm still not sure you don't have an opening width mismatch rather than a thickness issue.
HillRider is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 08:35 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 1,511

Bikes: '92 22" Cannondale M2000, '92 Cannondale R1000 Tandem, another modern Canndondale tandem, Two Holy Grail '86 Cannondale ST800s 27" (68.5cm) Touring bike w/Superbe Pro components and Phil Wood hubs. A bunch of other 27" ST frames & bikes.

Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
Since the locknut is outboard, ANY thickness wrench will fit. Remove wheel from bike.
Not the case. The outer locknut on an Ultegra 6500 hub is adjusted with cone wrenches. There is a cone flat on the inside half. If you saw a picture of one you'd understand why the assumption didn't hold.
mtnbke is offline  
Old 08-01-15, 08:38 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 1,511

Bikes: '92 22" Cannondale M2000, '92 Cannondale R1000 Tandem, another modern Canndondale tandem, Two Holy Grail '86 Cannondale ST800s 27" (68.5cm) Touring bike w/Superbe Pro components and Phil Wood hubs. A bunch of other 27" ST frames & bikes.

Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by HillRider
OK, 6500 hubs and their contemporary Dura Ace 77000-series hubs did indeed require two cone wrenches as the locknuts had thin flats like the cones. The front hub required a 13 mm cone wrench on the cone and a 14 mm cone wrench for the locknuts while the rear hub required 14 mm cone wrenches for both. I've used Park cone wrenches on my 7700 hubs with no problems. I'm still not sure you don't have an opening width mismatch rather than a thickness issue.
Thanks! I was assuming both were 13mm. Because the 13 would slide over the cone flat. I wasn't paying attention to whether the locknut was a different size. An oversight on my part. Thank you!
mtnbke is offline  
Old 08-03-15, 07:16 AM
  #17  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Like the OP, I ran into cone wrenches that were too thick for the flanged locknut on Shimano hubs (XT M760). I think I found that the maximum thickness cone wrench that will fit that locknut is right around 2.0mm.

The thickness of various cone wrenches I have include:

Park DCW: 1.85mm

Park SCW: 2.15mm

Park CW: 2.45mm

Tacx: 2.05mm

Hozan: 2.00mm
Just Riding is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
geezerwheels
Bicycle Mechanics
4
01-28-18 07:25 PM
eschlwc
Classic & Vintage
26
07-03-17 01:13 PM
dchsueh
Bicycle Mechanics
16
07-21-12 11:21 PM
TromboneAl
Bicycle Mechanics
45
07-15-12 09:45 PM
stbtra
Bicycle Mechanics
14
09-05-10 06:55 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.