Mumaro

Bike: Windsor Clockwork from BD ---> Save Up To 60% Off Windsor Fixie Singlespeed Bikes - Clockwork

I've been searching through so many threads but I'm still searching for my answer. So it only does this sound in the exact same spot in my pedal on both sides (on the down stroke under load; if I stop pedaling then nothing except the typical freewheel sound). I'm not used to bikes enough to know if this is important or not. It rides fine but I here the sound which I'm unsure of exactly. It's not a creaking. It sounds similar to if you lightly squeeze two spokes together and they rub. So far from other threads I've gathered:

1) Bottom bracket/lockring (but it's on the freewheel hub so it shouldn't have or need a lock ring right?)
2) Pedals loose (I'm going to remove them tomorrow, grease them and torque them back on)
3) Crank
4) Loose spokes (Haven't gotten around to truing it; I checked and it seems pretty true but I'm no pro)
5) Seat post shifting (I tightened it even more and will try pedaling out of saddle tomorrow to check)
6) New bike needs to break in (It's brand new; only been ridden about 5 miles, but I'm delaying just in case)

I haven't found another thread with the combination of new bike, single-speed, freewheel, happens only under load (if I pedal lightly/slow then nothing), and sound at exact same spot in pedal stroke. The closest I found to my situation, everyone was pointing to the cheap Shimano freewheel, but I can't find the brand of my freewheel so I can't deduce that's my solution. I'm inclined to go with pedals because of the conditions but should I check anything else while I'm at it?

StephenH

If it's at the same spot in the pedal stroke, I would look to the bottom bracket or pedals first.
If the pedal threads are loose, it's pretty obvious. Most of us just screw 'em in, no torque wrench, and that works fine. They don't have to be super tight.
If pedals are old, they could have worn bearings. If they're new, they could be defective, but that's unlikely. Even more unlikely that BOTH would be worn or defective!
It's possible to get sounds from the saddle, wheels, etc, that happen in time with the pedal stroke because the bike/saddle is being rocked one way or the other with each stroke or the frame is flexing with each stroke.
Check quick release to make sure it's not loose and letting the wheel shift as the bike rocks.
If my front wheel makes a noise, it sounds like it's coming from the front. If my back wheel makes a noise, it still sounds like it's coming from the front. So I've learned not to trust that. Sometimes, having somebody ride beside you can help pinpoint a noise better than you can riding.
There's times when a good bike shop comes in hand, cause they've seen it all before.

FBinNY 

These days far and away the most common single cause of clicking, knocking, rough feeling, etc. is improper chain tension.

To be perfectly clear --- THE CORRECT CHAIN TENSION IS ZERO -- or to put it another way, the chain should be visibly slack at all times.

Chainrings are often eccentric because play in the mounting holes allow them to be mounted slightly off center. So they act like cams and the chain slack will vary through the pedal stroke.

THE FIX turn the crank slowly feeling and/or watching for where the chain is tightest (least slack). If at that point there is not noticeable slack, the chain is too tight and the rear wheel needs to be pushed forward a bit to solve the issue.

Check chain tension before bothering with any other parts that require disassembly, because chain tension is both the most common issue, and the easiest to diagnose without taking anything apart. Proceed to other problems only if slackening the chain ails to solve the problem.

Mumaro

@StephenH

I removed the pedals today, lubed them up, and put them back on. They're definitely not loose now.
The saddle doesn't have a quick release but I went ahead and tighten that down a tad more, too. Neither pedals nor saddle have any play in them.
I tightened the crank a little but there's no play there either.
Good point about the the location. I'll have my girlfriend ride next to me and see if she can pinpoint it. It's still making the noise.

@FBinNY

I looked into this and after feeling for slack while turning it, it might be too tight. Since a tight chain could cause binding, do these symptoms sound like a chain binding? I notice when I turn the pedals with it off the ground it gets a little tighter around the master link. I'm going to do a little more research probably in Sheldon Brown's guides about this tonight after my meeting.

Thanks for the help so far.

FBinNY 

If you think there's the barest possibility that the chain might be too tight, it almost certainly is. As I said (a thousand times here on BF) Single speed chains must be SLACK. Any tension is too much tension, even if you think there might be tension, that's too much tension.

In any case, this is a no brainer. You don't have to take my word, or read. Moving a wheel forward a hair takes less than a minute, and will either solve the problem or not. If yes, go celebrate --- if no, it's another minute to move it back. All in all a definitive answer in less time that it took you to ask the question and read the answers.

Mumaro

So the chain was definitely too tight so I backed it off and the knocking was still there.

Saddle, pedals, and crank have all been tightened and chain loosened. Maybe I have spokes that are too loose?

cny-bikeman

Wheels turn at a different rate as the pedals, so can't be anything related to the wheels or rear cog. Make sure again that the chain is easily deflected even at its tightest point, as if the chainring is a bit eccentric the tightness would indeed show up twice each full crank revolution. Also check for a bent chainring or bent teeth.

Plimogz

Could still be seatpost creak -- except where you say it's not a creak.

FBinNY 

Given that the chain was previously too tight, it might have worked the chainring, and now the bolts are loose. So the next step is to check chainring bolts.

AlmostTrick

Did you try the fixed gear side yet? My guess is the cheap freewheel they put on BD single speeds is your problem. It was on mine. When I flipped the wheel to fixed the snapping noises disappeared.

I put on a new Shimano FW and it was quieter than the cheap original FW, but not silent like a SS should be. I then installed the fancy (and expensive) ENO FW from White Industries... very quiet. (except when you coast, then it sounds like a swarm of angry hornets!)

WizardOfBoz

Here's a test: While riding, get to a situation where you hear the sound. Then, keep pedaling but back off and put no pressure on the the chain. A small amount of pressure is ok, but the point is, near zero stress on the crank, chainring, etc. If you still hear the sound, I'd suspect a bearing in the bottom bracket or some sort of interference with a seal or something. If not, I'd suspect that the bolts holding your chainring bolts, as FBinNY has suggested.

Another test would be to disengage the chain, then pedal the crank to see if you get the sound. If so, its definately bottom bracket.

Mumaro

@cny-bikeman

I didn't see any bent teeth anywhere. Looks pretty solid to my eye anyway. The chain is definitely loose enough on the tight side now. Got at least a half inch play on the tight side.

@Plimogz

I don't think it's the seat post. I pedaled standing up again this morning to make sure and even tightened it down again. Can't go too much farther without stripping it. Unless maybe I didn't grease it enough.

@FBinNY

I checked over the chain ring bolts and they still seem tight. These came assembled so should I try removing, regreasing, and re torquing?

@AlmostTrick

That's what I was afraid of. I'll try flipping the wheel tonight or tomorrow morning.

@WizardOfBoz

I will definitely try this in a little bit. Can't take the chain off until tonight but I'll do that as well.


A little update: After loosening the chain I rode about a mile this morning and the noise was more random. It was harder to pinpoint where in the pedal stroke it was come from. It almost felt like it disappeared on the left side but I couldn't confirm that. Chain on the right. Maybe or maybe not that'll help.

Thank you to everyone for all the help so far, by the way.

bigredkevbot

Check the inside bolts of the rear wheel. I had an issue that I thought was BB related, and it turns out the bolts on the inside of the rear wheel had loosened up and were clicking/making a popping/creaking sound.

WizardOfBoz

One last thing. On a recent ride I was not paying attention and rode onto the little carve outs in the pavement ("vibrator strips") that warn motorists that they're veering off the road. On a bike, much less pleasant! After I did this, I had a click once per crank revolution. I thought I'd really screwed up my bike. Turns out, my pump had slid down and was knocking on the crank arm. Very simple fix, but I was quite concerned. Make sure you see no obvious interference points.

Obviously, the chain rings, and the cinch of the crank arm on the BB spindle are critical, too.

cny-bikeman

Shouldn't be an issue on a new, stock bicycle, but given my comment on "should" in my signature: Make sure the chainring and rear cog are lined up behind each other, so that the chain is not badly angled.

Mumaro

So today after loosening the chain it was happening more frequently. I got home and use that to my advantage and really tried to locate where it was happening at. I was able to locate it to the back wheel. I went ahead and flipped the wheel to the fixed side and no sound. I took the wheel back off and looked at the free wheel.

I assume there should be no play in the free wheel hub? I noticed it wobbles a bit horizontally. I wasn't able to notice then when it was on the bike. Could the free wheel itself be bad and needs to be replaced? This probably reveals how newbie at bikes I am but what will I need to tighten this?

FBinNY 

OK, so we now know it's the freewheel.

There are two likely possibilities, but before I go there you need to understand freewheels a little bit.

Play is common in freewheels because they are not built to any great degree of precision, nor do they have to be. They operate in 2 modes, engaged when pedaling, and coasting when not.

So when you're pedaling, the mechanism is locked up internally and drives the hub the same speed as the sprocket is turning and there's no moving parts within the freewheel. OTOH, whey you're coasting, the chain isn't moving on the sprockets, and there's no load at all, save for a bit of friction as the pawls slip over the ratchet ring.

That said, the cause has to lie outside the freewheel's internal mechanism and, as I said, there are 2 suspects.

The first is you, some newer riders don't have an even pedaling style, and slow down at points within the cycle, usually when cranks are vertical. This allows the wheel to move forward and begin to coast for a few degrees, then you catch up and hear a clunk as the mechanism catches again. This is a likely possibility if the clunking is fairly rhythmic, and timed to your pedaling cycle, but less of a possibility if it's more random.

Another possibility, is the outside of the freewheel itself. If the sprocket teeth are close to the body of the freewheel, and the troughs come within 1/16" or so to the body, it can allow the chain's plates which overhang those troughs to touch the body, and prevent the chain from settling fully onto the teeth. Sometimes the chain is fine, but the connecting plates are a bit larger and they touch (one clunk every 2 or so crank revolutions). There's a telltale for this, in that you'll see some evidence of chain contact on the body just to the side of the sprocket. (remove the wheel to look under good light).

The cure if that's the issue is either a new connecting link (or flipping it over if a Wipperman Connex), OR if the rest of the chain also touches, a new freewheel.

Mumaro

Edit: I emailed Bike Direct and they're sending me a replacement freewheel. Couldn't have been easier working with them.

@FBinNY

Your first case was something I discovered early on when I was trying to locate this. It's basically the same noise when the free wheel catches again but I know this isn't the sound because it happens even when accelerating and fully gripped strokes. Not to mention that today it was not rhythmic with the chain looser. So I believe we can cross that off.

As for the second case, I don't think it's had enough time to rub into the body so if this is the case I can't quite tell from looking at it.

So with the wheel off when I grasp the teeth and wiggle horizontally it makes the sound and part of the body on the freewheel will move. The other side doesn't move quite as much.

I'm thinking this is probably due to a cheap cog? I can't read the brand on it so I don't know the brand but what I'm getting from all of this is probably to buy a new cog and install that one.

Dansoy

This actually happens to me and i discovered that it was my new dnp17T that was making the sound. I think this might be ure problem too. Juat try and use the fixed cog 1st if the knocking sounds go away then ull be pretty sure that is the freewheel cog thats making it.

FBinNY 

It's been 9 years. I'm sure he's solved it by now. Or simply gave up cycling

Mumaro

Not to continue reviving the thread but the replacement Bike Direct sent me worked. I actually still have that exact bike and it still works great; the replacement never acted up on me and is quiet as can be. I don't bike nearly as much as I used to since I'm commuting by car now but I could take it out tomorrow and it would run like a champ for what it is anyways. Figured I would chime in since I never updated.