Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Spoke triangulation angle

Search
Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Spoke triangulation angle

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-17-16 | 11:40 PM
  #1  
jyl's Avatar
jyl
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,643
Likes: 68
From: Portland OR

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Spoke triangulation angle

I'm going to build a wheel with 650B rim (VO Diagonale) and a front hub with unusually close together flanges (SP dynohub, center to flange only 22 mm). Should I worry about the spoke triangulation angle? Should I build to higher tension to compensate?. Any reason to prefer 2 vs 3 cross?. Spokes will be butted, like DT Competitions.
jyl is offline  
Reply
Old 02-18-16 | 07:24 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,848
Likes: 4
U worry way to much, do as any wheel and 3x. Done.
ultraman6970 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-18-16 | 07:56 AM
  #3  
Kopsis's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 1
From: St. Pete, Florida
I wouldn't worry. With the smaller ERD of the 650B rim it's really not that extreme. Rears run worse angles than that all the time on the drive-side and the lateral forces on the front wheel are significantly less than the rear. There's no conclusive evidence that 2x vs. 3x has any effect on wheel stiffness on a rim brake front wheel, it's simply trading a small increase in radial load on the hub flanges for a small decrease in weight from shorter spokes. As for tension, once you have enough tension to keep the spokes from unloading, additional tension has no benefit.

tl; dr: Build it the way you would with any other hub and you'll be fine.
Kopsis is offline  
Reply
Old 02-18-16 | 11:13 AM
  #4  
jyl's Avatar
jyl
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,643
Likes: 68
From: Portland OR

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Glad to hear this. I was even thinking about choosing a rim with offset spoke holes and lacing the right flange to the left spoke holes and vice versa. But that seems extreme.
jyl is offline  
Reply
Old 02-18-16 | 11:19 AM
  #5  
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
Really Old Senior Member
15 Anniversary
Community Builder
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,682
Likes: 1,918
From: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds. 2019 Giant Explore E+3

I'd probably cross 2X, but mainly because I've never done 2X and this seems like a good enough excuse to try it.

EDIT-
You didn't mention how many spokes. 32 or 36.
I'd be more inclined to go 2X on a 32 spoke wheel vs a 36.

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 02-18-16 at 11:23 AM.
Bill Kapaun is online now  
Reply
Old 02-18-16 | 01:56 PM
  #6  
Banned
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
Likes: 1,380
From: NW,Oregon Coast

Bikes: 8

In a 32 hole 3 cross is Like 4 cross in 36 hole- 1st cross is the spoke on the other side of the flange,
headed to the opposite side of the rim.
Hook is pulling into the most aluminum between the hole and the edge of the hub flange.

You can always Mix cross patterns. Say 1 less on the Non Drive Side. which will of course be Under less tension.

Because it is a Hybrid Freehub-IGH...

If a 1 cog IGH there will be little if any Dish..

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-18-16 at 02:53 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Reply
Old 02-18-16 | 02:38 PM
  #7  
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 326
From: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Originally Posted by jyl
I'm going to build a wheel with 650B rim (VO Diagonale) and a front hub with unusually close together flanges (SP dynohub, center to flange only 22 mm). Should I worry about the spoke triangulation angle?
No. The drive side of rear wheels is worse and works fine.

Should I build to higher tension to compensate?.
No. Wheel tension has no effect on stiffness.

Any reason to prefer 2 vs 3 cross?. Spokes will be butted, like DT Competitions.
Number of holes, spoke bed diameter, and hub flange diameter - you want the spokes as close to tangential as possible for strength, and don't want to overlap the heads which would complicate replacement.

As a roadie I've only dealt with 700C / 622 rims and lack practical experience on where smaller rims like 650B / 584 need fewer crosses.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 02-18-16 at 04:59 PM.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Reply
Old 02-18-16 | 02:46 PM
  #8  
joejack951's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,103
Likes: 96
From: Wilmington, DE

Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)

Originally Posted by jyl
I'm going to build a wheel with 650B rim (VO Diagonale) and a front hub with unusually close together flanges (SP dynohub, center to flange only 22 mm). Should I worry about the spoke triangulation angle? Should I build to higher tension to compensate?. Any reason to prefer 2 vs 3 cross?. Spokes will be butted, like DT Competitions.
If it's not a disc wheel and you really care about more spoke triangulation and if the hub can tolerate it (I love three 'if' statements), you can always lace it radially with all the spoke heads in to maximize the triangulation (and fugliness).
joejack951 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-19-16 | 11:56 PM
  #9  
Jeff Wills's Avatar
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
Titanium Club Membership
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Titanium
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10,168
Likes: 1,135
From: other Vancouver
Originally Posted by ultraman6970
U worry way to much, do as any wheel and 3x. Done.
Ditto by me. Front wheels are way overbuilt. I have a 24-spoke on my SWB recumbent and it's never been a problem... and you know I ain't small.

FWIW, J: are you still collecting oddball French parts? I saw a set of CLB centerpulls in the used parts bin at CCC on 17th today.
__________________
Jeff Wills

Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills is offline  
Reply
Old 02-20-16 | 12:58 AM
  #10  
jyl's Avatar
jyl
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,643
Likes: 68
From: Portland OR

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Thanks. I'm not looking for those, though they are cool. All parts acquisition is focused on the Phat Bike.
jyl is offline  
Reply
Old 02-20-16 | 06:46 AM
  #11  
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
Senior member
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,380
Likes: 912
From: Oakville Ontario
I'll agree with the others, it's a front wheel, no worries about the bracing angle.
It's true though, those SP hubs are tiny. I've just started dealing in them, have a couple here. I would be very interested in your experience with it from a performance point of view. I have one built into a wheel for a demo, but other than hooking it up to a light and giving it a spin in the truing stand, I have not tested it. The claims of lower rolling resistance seem to be accurate.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mloywhite
Bicycle Mechanics
34
12-17-20 04:38 AM
calamarichris
Bicycle Mechanics
16
01-01-19 01:39 PM
go_jake
Bicycle Mechanics
11
10-29-14 08:27 PM
Reynolds
Bicycle Mechanics
9
08-30-11 09:25 AM
ericm979
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
42
05-18-11 09:43 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.