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Wheelbuilders and users- thoughts on Mavic Open Pro and Velocity Deep V rims?

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Wheelbuilders and users- thoughts on Mavic Open Pro and Velocity Deep V rims?

Old 04-06-16, 07:06 PM
  #1  
mstateglfr 
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Wheelbuilders and users- thoughts on Mavic Open Pro and Velocity Deep V rims?

Need a new wheelset on a road bike (87 Miyata 912) due to the current rear rim's seam twisting. Half the seam protrudes out on both sides of the rim.

I love the current hubs- tricolor with 8sp currently, but the hubs are only 32h.
Im 6'5 230 and though i dont mash and try to float over rr tracks and all, its kinda inevitable i am harder on wheels.


So instead of lacing up a new rim to the hub, im really considering some 36h road rims. Velomine has Open Pro and Deep V rims with straight spokes and 105 hubs for just over $200.

I know butted are better than straight. But i figure 36h straight outweighs 32h butted. Thoughts on that from the actually knowledgeable folk here?

Is either rim really better than the other? Both seem to have generally good reviews.
Ill have 25h tires on the rims.
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Old 04-06-16, 07:29 PM
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Open Pro rims in 32H will hold up for you, if you "ride light" as you describe. I started building Open Pro rims when I weighed 214 lb and commuted daily on them with a 20 lb backpack.
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Old 04-06-16, 07:58 PM
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You could buy the 36h wheels AND lace up the old 32s as incentive to shed some weight

Speaking of weight, The two rim choices are slightly apples to oranges. The Open Pro is a box section and a little over 400g per rim; the Deep V is semi-aero and almost 600g per rim. Total, you're looking at almost a pound in rim weight alone, plus possible cross section/wind issues. I'm not necessarily pointing to one or the other, just pointing it out.

Anecdotally, I attempted to use a set of open pro rims for commuting duty (<200lbs of rider, plus lightly loaded panniers) and broke my rear wheel at the seam on rough pavement after 6 months or so.
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Old 04-06-16, 08:30 PM
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Ha, yes I'll reuse the 32h tricolor hubs...eventually. I have too many irons in the bike fire, am building up an older touring frame, and hadn't planned on this road wheel issue. I need some set it and forget it wheels for this season so I figured some 36h wheels with 105s would do the job.

I figured the weight difference at .6 pounds and didn't think that'd be huge. Ive read the whole rotational weight thing, but figured that if the Deep Vs were universally loved and incredible I would say the weight hit is worth it.


What do you mean about wind issues?
Thanks
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Old 04-07-16, 04:02 AM
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mstateglfr, When I weighed 200-210 lb. I didn't have any problems with 32 hole rims on my distance roadie (CXP12, 600 hubs, and 2.0-1.8 DB spokes). My 28 hole OPs are a personal favorite, but they saw less than ~1K miles when I was over 200 lb. as I was on a personal weight reduction program when I had them built.

I don't have any experience with the Velocity rims, but I would expect them to be stronger than the OPs and a bit more aerodynamic.

Brad
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Old 04-07-16, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
mstateglfr, When I weighed 200-210 lb. I didn't have any problems with 32 hole rims on my distance roadie (CXP12, 600 hubs, and 2.0-1.8 DB spokes). My 28 hole OPs are a personal favorite, but they saw less than ~1K miles when I was over 200 lb. as I was on a personal weight reduction program when I had them built.

I don't have any experience with the Velocity rims, but I would expect them to be stronger than the OPs and a bit more aerodynamic.

Brad
If the DeepVs are actually stronger, ill probably go that route. As mentioned, I plan on reusing the current hubs and will build up those with some new 32h rims, but that wont be until the end of the season most likely. The 32h wheels had been great so far up until the seam bent somehow, so I may then go back to using the 32h Tricolors next season since I am a nerd when it comes to trying to use the original components for as long as possible.
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Old 04-07-16, 08:35 AM
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Deep v rims in 36h drilling are the go-to wheel when someone has a history of trashing typically durable wheels.
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Old 04-07-16, 09:25 AM
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I wouldn't get either, and instead get the cheap H Plus Son Archetypes from Velomine. They're stronger than the Open Pros and lighter and better made than the Deep-Vs.

If all you care about is strength though, the Deep-Vs are strong!
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Old 04-07-16, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post
I wouldn't get either, and instead get the cheap H Plus Son Archetypes from Velomine. They're stronger than the Open Pros and lighter and better made than the Deep-Vs.

If all you care about is strength though, the Deep-Vs are strong!
Looked at those, but they are 32h.

Probably overthinking at this point. Paralysis by analysis.
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Old 04-07-16, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Looked at those, but they are 32h.
I'm 250lb and ride them.
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Old 04-07-16, 11:20 AM
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I've had excellent results building Mavic open pros, which remain a favorite rim to work with. I can't rate the Velocity Deep Vs because I'm not a fan of deep V rims in general for a number of reasons, which are more related to wheel philosophy and preference than inherent quality.
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Old 04-07-16, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Looked at those, but they are 32h.

Probably overthinking at this point. Paralysis by analysis.
The extra rim depth will do more for you than four extra spokes.

Beam stiffness is proportional to the cube of depth, so all else equal it'd take 3.9X the impact to bend a Deep-V.

Lateral deflection is at most (with a very flexible rim) inversely proportional to spoke count, where you might pickup 12.5% from four more spokes.

At some point a wheel won't run true enough with a broken spoke, although with 32 and uniform tension you're at the point where you can open your brake release and get home, or make a minor adjustment to the adjacent spokes and continue your ride/tour with it closed.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 04-07-16 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 04-07-16, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
N
I know butted are better than straight. But i figure 36h straight outweighs 32h butted. Thoughts on that from the actually knowledgeable folk here?

Is either rim really better than the other? Both seem to have generally good reviews.
Ill have 25h tires on the rims.
It's easier to collapse a wheel with straight gauge spokes because they stretch less at a given tension (when the spokes go slack due to a hard hit the rim becomes unsupported laterally, can drift sideways, and the wheel collapses when it springs back from the bump), and the straight gauge spokes will be more likely to go out of true with the low tension that usually goes with machine-built wheels.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 04-07-16 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 04-07-16, 01:54 PM
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Either rim will likely be fine. If you want stronger (bombproof if built well) go for the Deep Vs. If you want lighter go for the Open Pros.

The quality of the build is far more important than the difference between those two rims.
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Old 04-07-16, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post
I wouldn't get either, and instead get the cheap H Plus Son Archetypes from Velomine. They're stronger than the Open Pros and lighter and better made than the Deep-Vs.
And you base this on what? Not saying that the H Plus rims are bad but I see nothing that indicates that they are stronger than the Open Pros nor better made than the Deep-Vs. And the Open Pros are 30g lighter which doesn't mean much but the H Plus aren't "lighter" than the Open Pros. Price-wise, the H Plus is cheaper than the Deep-Vs but about the same price as the Open Pros.

If you have some data to back up your claims, I'll gladly listen.

That said it doesn't matter that much, mstateglfr. The Deep-Vs are a bit stronger due to their larger cross-section as Drew Eckhardt points out but they are heavier. I've ridden Open Pros in the past and found them to be good rims but that's not saying too much. I got pretty good service out of fairly cheap Weinmann single wall rims as well. If you don't want to lug around the Deep-Vs, Velocity Fusion offers many of the same benefits without the weight. The Velocity A23 is a good choice with a slightly lower profile than the Fusion or Deep-V and it comes in an off-center drilling for the rear wheel. The Velocity Aerohead wouldn't be a bad choice either.
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Old 04-07-16, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
What do you mean about wind issues?
Thanks
If you ride in a lot of wind, the deep side profile (and the 36 spokes) are going to catch more wind than, say, 32 spokes and a shallower box rim.
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Old 04-07-16, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
The quality of the build is far more important than the difference between those two rims.
Ha, and I would be going pretty budget since I dont want to build wheels right now and dont want to pay a lot.
Why cant we all have our cake and eat it too?
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Old 04-07-16, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Ha, and I would be going pretty budget since I dont want to build wheels right now and dont want to pay a lot.
Why cant we all have our cake and eat it too?
I can, if you're able to get over the time required to build them yourself... I buy sets of double butted 2.0/1.6/2.0 spokes at Yellow Jersey for $30 per wheel, usually plunder ebay for good deals on (new) rims, and either use hubs I already have or get inexpensive (used) hubs.

You already have hubs so you could easily put together a fantastic wheelset for $100-150.

If time is of the essence, get a used set on craigslist until you can rebuild your tri-color hubs. Then sell it later for virtually the same price.
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Old 04-07-16, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
And you base this on what? Not saying that the H Plus rims are bad but I see nothing that indicates that they are stronger than the Open Pros nor better made than the Deep-Vs.
Personal experience of ownership of all three rims, both working on and riding on them. The quality comment is based on the construction quality, in my opinion the Deep-V quality is a bit suspect at the joint, they often come out with gaps and lips. One of my rims has a lip I had to file down for example. On the Archetypes you cannot tell where the join is.

The Deep-Vs are a bit stronger due to their larger cross-section as Drew Eckhardt points out
For the same reason Archetypes are stronger than Open Pros.

And the Open Pros are 30g lighter which doesn't mean much but the H Plus aren't "lighter" than the Open Pros.
Please read what I said again. I only stated that the Archetypes are lighter than the Deep-Vs.

If you have some data to back up your claims, I'll gladly listen.
Why start now?

Last edited by dr_lha; 04-07-16 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 04-07-16, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
If the DeepVs are actually stronger, ill probably go that route...
Nothing wrong with a back-up doomsday class wheel set.

Brad
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Old 04-07-16, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
If the DeepVs are actually stronger, ill probably go that route.
I think the Deep Vs are probably your best bet if you're going with Velomine. I just bought a set of wheels from them, and the initial spoke tension was good but not great. They put a sticker on the box saying that spoke tension should be checked after 4-5 hours of riding, which I take as an admission on their part that there is a good chance the tension won't hold. As I understand it, the potential loss of tension comes as a result of the spokes temporarily losing tension during use. If tension is high enough and even enough this won't be a problem, but if the wheel build isn't great it can happen. I think the Deep V rims are less likely to have an issue with tension loss than the Open Pros. Even with a good build, I think the straight gauge spokes could be less reliable with a rim like the Open Pro.

Let me say that I agree with others that Open Pros are good rims and at 32h they can handle a 200+ pound rider. It's only the combination of straight gauge spokes and machine built wheels that makes me hesitant about them in your circumstances.
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Old 04-08-16, 04:26 PM
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I have had better luck with Open Sport than Open Pro. A few ounces more aluminum makes for a stronger rim.

Last edited by davidad; 04-11-16 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 04-08-16, 06:30 PM
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OpenPro is the 1 rim I have heard about cracking around the spoke holes. I had 1 myself. I got the wheel used, so not sure what it went through before I got it, but have heard of a few others.
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Old 04-08-16, 06:46 PM
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The other advantage of the Archetype and A23 is that they are wider internal rims, which are better suited to 25/28 mm tires. As a heavier rider, you'll probably appreciate the extra float from the wider tire.
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Old 04-08-16, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
OpenPro is the 1 rim I have heard about cracking around the spoke holes. I had 1 myself. I got the wheel used, so not sure what it went through before I got it, but have heard of a few others.
This might partly reflect it's success in the market, and among builders.

I've never had one fail except in a crash, including both my own, and those I've built for others. Generally, when rims crack at spoke holes, I chalk it up to too much spoke, ie 14g plain gauge, and/or excess tension.
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