Paint in BB Shell
10-02-16 | 03:57 PM
#26
afraid of whales
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,306
Likes: 6
From: Front Range, CO
All I know is Hollowtech II, I have found they don't need perfection, there's a nylon bushing liner that allows a small amount of slop. In my experience, old school Campy/Shimano ball & cup need that perfection, not HTII.
10-02-16 | 04:06 PM
#27
afraid of whales
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,306
Likes: 6
From: Front Range, CO
There is only one proper frame alignment. The bb shell is the starting point, the seat tube, head tube and dropouts (both sets) are all aligned with respect to the bb shell. When that is done correctly, there's no question the wheels are aligned and the bike tracks straight. It's not rocket science, the concept was clear to me when I was first introduced to it at 15 years old. That's how Mark Mueller does it at Waterford, I assume every competent builder understands it.
10-02-16 | 05:55 PM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 19,349
Likes: 5,466
From: Rochester, NY
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
I have started a thread over in the framebuilder's section. As this discussion really isn't about what this thread is. Please feel free to go over there for a follow up. Andy. (who will be out of town for a week and won't add more till after coming home.)
10-02-16 | 09:42 PM
#29
Decrepit Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,488
Likes: 92
From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
And you did in a most verbose manner. I can't decipher your ramble but it appears you have made a very simple engineering concept into gobble-de-gook.
There is only one proper frame alignment. The bb shell is the starting point, the seat tube, head tube and dropouts (both sets) are all aligned with respect to the bb shell. When that is done correctly, there's no question the wheels are aligned and the bike tracks straight. It's not rocket science, the concept was clear to me when I was first introduced to it at 15 years old. That's how Mark Mueller does it at Waterford, I assume every competent builder understands it.
There is only one proper frame alignment. The bb shell is the starting point, the seat tube, head tube and dropouts (both sets) are all aligned with respect to the bb shell. When that is done correctly, there's no question the wheels are aligned and the bike tracks straight. It's not rocket science, the concept was clear to me when I was first introduced to it at 15 years old. That's how Mark Mueller does it at Waterford, I assume every competent builder understands it.
10-03-16 | 03:22 AM
#30
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 495
Likes: 3
From: UK
Bikes: '07 Carrera TDF / 2011 Ghost Race Actinum 5000
The frame shop I worked at faced the shell referenced to the threads, then aligned the frame on a surface plate with the shell bolted to the table using the face as the reference. It works.
If the frame is already built up and in the hands of a consumer then it might be an issue, esp if the frame wasn't built with the bb threads as the original reference for all subsequent alignment steps.
OTOH, the need for the faces to be perfectly parallel for a bottom bracket to work correctly has mostly past. If a cartridge bb is used then there's no need at all. In the case of Hollowtech II bb, there's some slop available in the nylon bushing that line the bearing and if the shell isn't too far off it'll work.
If the frame is already built up and in the hands of a consumer then it might be an issue, esp if the frame wasn't built with the bb threads as the original reference for all subsequent alignment steps.
OTOH, the need for the faces to be perfectly parallel for a bottom bracket to work correctly has mostly past. If a cartridge bb is used then there's no need at all. In the case of Hollowtech II bb, there's some slop available in the nylon bushing that line the bearing and if the shell isn't too far off it'll work.
10-03-16 | 03:28 AM
#31
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 495
Likes: 3
From: UK
Bikes: '07 Carrera TDF / 2011 Ghost Race Actinum 5000
I have since found out that my friend had used a rubber mallet and a Hollowtech II tool to get the old BB cups out. He said that they were seized in there, so I am guessing that the hammering of the tool and BB was the cause of the threads getting twisted and messed up. He said that it took a good while and a lot of force to get those cups out.
The frame is back with me now, so I can go about adding all the components and new cables etc to the bike.
Thanks for the replies folks. Always interesting.
The frame is back with me now, so I can go about adding all the components and new cables etc to the bike.
Thanks for the replies folks. Always interesting.
