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Old 10-24-16 | 12:18 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
How about the OP get a part time job in the bike shop working along side experienced mechanics? There used to be such a thing as an apprenticeship. Some trades still have it.
I have a full-time job, management position at that, but there is a bike shop in town that does recycle/refurbish work, that has volunteers working I believe. I may contact them about putting in a couple of hours on the weekend.
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Old 10-24-16 | 12:27 PM
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Three more that you'll need for most vintage bikes (in addition to above lists): crank puller, cone wrenches (combination slots 13/14 and 15/16, two of them), and pin spanner for headset adjustment nut and loose ball bottom bracket lockring.
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Old 10-24-16 | 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyace
I have a full-time job, management position at that, but there is a bike shop in town that does recycle/refurbish work, that has volunteers working I believe. I may contact them about putting in a couple of hours on the weekend.
This is a great idea.

I'd encourage you to work along side experienced mechanics of any kind.

It's one thing to follow directions but another to get a feel for things that only an experienced mechanic can impart. At a minimum you will learn what to sweat and what not to worry about. Let us know how it works.


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Old 10-24-16 | 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyace
I do have basic tools. The stuff I don't have is cable cutters, BB tools, headset tools... the bike-specific tools, I guess you could say.
So thats good, you could buy one of those tool kits to help add to your set, but they only have a few things you will need and are not of the best quality but do have some critical stuff for more modern bikes that will come in handy at some point. That being said you will have to piecemeal alot of the tools anyway, which can get spendy but will be a good investment.
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Old 10-24-16 | 01:11 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by johnnyace
...
Mostly this is a matter of not having the right tools. I'm willing to learn, I've got the internet and potentially books at my disposal. I'm looking at this basic tool set on Amazon ...
Also, my interest lies mostly in classic and vintage steel bikes; I don't know whether this makes much difference ...
The right tools do matter. You can try to force it using what you have on hand, but you run the risk of doing damage.

I'll chime in on some of the other advise form above.
  • Buy the best tools you can afford
  • Check out videos on YouTube. I particularly like the ones mentioned above as well as those from Park Tools
  • Working on vintage bikes may require specialized tools above and beyond what more current model bikes require
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Old 10-24-16 | 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
My point is that there is a a "feel" for things which a mechanic develops over the years. This only comes from experience. An aspiring bike mechanic with little experience should not limit himself to just bikes and should look for any opportunity to gain experience.
-Tim-
All true, and nothing I said conflicts - I was just pointing out that other things besides mechanical experience are helpful. The reverse works as well. My diagnostic experience with bikes served me well when I began to get into computers.
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Old 10-24-16 | 07:14 PM
  #32  
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park tool has a great web site Home Page | Park Tool

more esoteric in that is has tons of stuff is sheldon browns (he has passed away years ago, but his website live) Sheldon Brown-Bicycle Technical Information

and get a good workstand.......I fussed around with DIY for years. Save time, aggravation and money....just get a park tcs-10 and be done with it Home Mechanic Repair Stand | Park Tool
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Old 10-24-16 | 09:16 PM
  #33  
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Experience
What can go wrong? Broken parts, damaged frames, failures while riding, etc.

Videos can be useful for some projects. But my first place to check is the Park Tool Repair Help pages.

For instance, the "threadless" headsets, where the stem clamps around the steerer tube, is easy to adjust, once you understand how it works. (The two bolts on the stem are loosened, then the top cap is tightened "just enough" to preload the bearings, using very light finger pressure. Finally, tighten the two bolts to hold it all together. It was a "Oh, I see!" moment after I read the Park Tool guide.)

And I've seen a lot of posts over the years with riders randomly turning the limit screws and the barrel adjusters, trying to fix their derailleur shifting. Don't do that! It's easy to adjust correctly, once you follow the steps (and a repair stand makes it way easier.)

Even replacing a chain is more complicated now than 30 years ago. The chain pins are just about flush with the sides of the chain, so the correct assembly is critical.

I recently got stuck after I pulled out the brake cable that threads through my frame. I assumed there must be a guide channel inside, but no. The bike store got me going, and now I know the method--see this post. I should have done some research first.

I've seen lots of advice here on BF about torque, saying "you just need a feel for it". But I use a torque wrench on critical bolts, instead of using "years of experience". (I've adjusted seat post clamps often enough, and those I do have a feel for.)

Home mechanics have cracked their frame by clamping it too hard on the repair stand. I always clamp the seat post.

I guess my point here is to do at least a little research if you are starting a new project. Most everything is pretty easy once you know the methods.

Tools
I posted a list of the tools I've accumulated over the years. (It's for modern bikes, vintage bikes will be different.) I buy them as I need them for new projects. Good tools do make a difference-- quality hex wrenches work much better, for instance.

But I've gotten a few tools at Harbor Freight: some larger metric sockets that I only use occasionally, and some adapters to fit different sockets together.

Last edited by rm -rf; 10-24-16 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 10-24-16 | 09:42 PM
  #34  
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Starting out

Here's some useful projects that you'll repeat in the future, too.

New chain
check the "stretch" on the old chain with a 12 inch steel ruler.
replace the chain. I like the "quick link" links, instead of pushing a pin in.

Derailleur adjustment
It's easy to adjust the rear derailleur (or the front). At least once, check the limit screws, using the Park Tool guide.
The next time, small adjustments to quiet a noisy shift will be fast and easy.

Shifter cable replacement.
You'll usually want to replace the housing too. You can cut the housing to fit your bike better, it's usually a little too long from the factory, to accomodate different sized riders.

Headset bearing adjustment
You can get the headset bearings "just right", not too tight or loose.
And you can adjust the handlebars to just the right angle,or the stem height.

Crankset adjustment or bottom bracket bearing replacement
The crank can need bearing adjustment occasionally, and the bearings wear out too.
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Old 10-25-16 | 07:10 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by keg61
there should be some kind of award for that kind of thinking! i can picture what you have clearly in my mind but it never would have occurred to me to do it that way
How kind of you to say that.

Actually, I have received an award from Bike Forums. It's the yellow jersey next to my avatar. My avatar picture, with it's caption, was also provided by another BF poster.
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Old 10-25-16 | 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rm -rf
Even replacing a chain is more complicated now than 30 years ago. The chain pins are just about flush with the sides of the chain, so the correct assembly is critical.
Just to clarify - there is no "correct assembly" of a modern chain in most cases. The correct procedure is to use a quick link.
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Old 10-25-16 | 08:24 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by johnnyace
I also realized right away that first and foremost, I need a decent bike stand. Trying to work on a bike without one is a pain!
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
I learned to tune bikes hanging my bike by it's front wheel from a garage rafter.
I only started using bike stands this decade. Before that I always just worked on the bike upside down, with rags under the seat and bars if I was being fussy (or often just on carpet), with the bars rotated if necessary.

You can do pretty much anything you need except fine FD adjustment (gravity on the chain), and in some ways it's actually better: you can put a lot more torque into it, which can be handy when it comes to the BB. And the bike makes a good wheel truing stand this way.
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Old 10-25-16 | 09:40 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by rm -rf
Experience
What can go wrong? Broken parts, damaged frames, failures while riding, etc.

Videos can be useful for some projects. But my first place to check is the Park Tool Repair Help pages.

For instance, the "threadless" headsets, where the stem clamps around the steerer tube, is easy to adjust, once you understand how it works. (The two bolts on the stem are loosened, then the top cap is tightened "just enough" to preload the bearings, using very light finger pressure. Finally, tighten the two bolts to hold it all together. It was a "Oh, I see!" moment after I read the Park Tool guide.)

And I've seen a lot of posts over the years with riders randomly turning the limit screws and the barrel adjusters, trying to fix their derailleur shifting. Don't do that! It's easy to adjust correctly, once you follow the steps (and a repair stand makes it way easier.)

Even replacing a chain is more complicated now than 30 years ago. The chain pins are just about flush with the sides of the chain, so the correct assembly is critical.

I recently got stuck after I pulled out the brake cable that threads through my frame. I assumed there must be a guide channel inside, but no. The bike store got me going, and now I know the method--see this post. I should have done some research first.

I've seen lots of advice here on BF about torque, saying "you just need a feel for it". But I use a torque wrench on critical bolts, instead of using "years of experience". (I've adjusted seat post clamps often enough, and those I do have a feel for.)

Home mechanics have cracked their frame by clamping it too hard on the repair stand. I always clamp the seat post.

I guess my point here is to do at least a little research if you are starting a new project. Most everything is pretty easy once you know the methods.

Tools
I posted a list of the tools I've accumulated over the years. (It's for modern bikes, vintage bikes will be different.) I buy them as I need them for new projects. Good tools do make a difference-- quality hex wrenches work much better, for instance.

But I've gotten a few tools at Harbor Freight: some larger metric sockets that I only use occasionally, and some adapters to fit different sockets together.
Originally Posted by rm -rf
Starting out

Here's some useful projects that you'll repeat in the future, too.

New chain
check the "stretch" on the old chain with a 12 inch steel ruler.
replace the chain. I like the "quick link" links, instead of pushing a pin in.

Derailleur adjustment
It's easy to adjust the rear derailleur (or the front). At least once, check the limit screws, using the Park Tool guide.
The next time, small adjustments to quiet a noisy shift will be fast and easy.

Shifter cable replacement.
You'll usually want to replace the housing too. You can cut the housing to fit your bike better, it's usually a little too long from the factory, to accomodate different sized riders.

Headset bearing adjustment
You can get the headset bearings "just right", not too tight or loose.
And you can adjust the handlebars to just the right angle,or the stem height.

Crankset adjustment or bottom bracket bearing replacement
The crank can need bearing adjustment occasionally, and the bearings wear out too.
Thanks for the info. And I love your username, by the way, although I suspect only those versed in UNIX/Linux/BSD operating systems knows what it means!
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Old 10-26-16 | 06:46 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by johnnyace
I do have basic tools. The stuff I don't have is cable cutters, BB tools, headset tools... the bike-specific tools, I guess you could say.
I was in your position recently. Some basic mechanic/tech skills and I had a decently stocked garage with basic tools. I had no bike mechanic knowledge whatsoever and didn't know what to even look for. So I figured one of those kits would be ideal. After looking at those pre made kits however, it seemed like 75% of the kit was stuff I already had (wrenches, screwdrivers, etc) and that I would have to buy several more tools to actually take a bike completely apart and put back together. I needed several more tools too, since I needed the tools for both vintage and modern components, as all my bikes are vintage but I upgrade some with modern parts. For example a needed a couple of tools to take apart a late 80's Shimano 105 crankset, and completly different couple of tools to install a 7800 Dura Ace crankset in its place. That was 4 tools total I think just for crankset, and none of them where in those 'kits'. I decided to actually look for each tool I needed individually and do some research on each one to find a good one for the best price. I found amazon usually had best prices and in many cases Park Tool was the cheapest and highly recommended (or only a few dollars more) for many things. Park tool also has great insturction and videos on youtube (and their website). Luckily I have lots of free time to surf the web on my nightshifts, and piece by piece I read over months and months to figure out what tools I needed and how to do it.
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Old 10-26-16 | 06:55 AM
  #40  
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I bought this tool kit from Performance Bike. I think I paid $39 (on sale). It has plenty of the bicycle specific tools. I bought some long handled hex wrenches (at Aldi's of all places).

But the most valued tool.... is a good bicycle workstand/repair stand.
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Old 10-26-16 | 07:14 AM
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For threaded headsets you can often get away with a very large adjustable wrench. For cables and housing almost any cable cutters will do, even the $7 one from Harbor Freight. What you will need for cable housing is an awl or something pointy to open it back up, as cutting it tends to pinch the end shut. Come to think of it, I bet a ballpoint pen would work.
For bottom brackets, if you're just regreasing all you need is a lockring wrench and a crank puller. If replacing then you need to remove the fixed cup too.
Access to a bench vise can be extremely helpful if you're restoring neglected old bikes. They're great for removing stuck bb cups, seatposts, and freewheels.
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Old 10-26-16 | 08:36 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Seizedpost
For threaded headsets you can often get away with a very large adjustable wrench. For cables and housing almost any cable cutters will do, even the $7 one from Harbor Freight. What you will need for cable housing is an awl or something pointy to open it back up, as cutting it tends to pinch the end shut. Come to think of it, I bet a ballpoint pen would work.
For bottom brackets, if you're just regreasing all you need is a lockring wrench and a crank puller. If replacing then you need to remove the fixed cup too.
Access to a bench vise can be extremely helpful if you're restoring neglected old bikes. They're great for removing stuck bb cups, seatposts, and freewheels.
I use a metal file and a nail to clean up housing.

One of these days I should probably invest in a decent housing cutter...I barely have enough strength to cut them with my small cable cutters.
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Old 10-26-16 | 08:48 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by T Stew
I was in your position recently. Some basic mechanic/tech skills and I had a decently stocked garage with basic tools. I had no bike mechanic knowledge whatsoever and didn't know what to even look for. So I figured one of those kits would be ideal. After looking at those pre made kits however, it seemed like 75% of the kit was stuff I already had (wrenches, screwdrivers, etc) and that I would have to buy several more tools to actually take a bike completely apart and put back together. I needed several more tools too, since I needed the tools for both vintage and modern components, as all my bikes are vintage but I upgrade some with modern parts. For example a needed a couple of tools to take apart a late 80's Shimano 105 crankset, and completly different couple of tools to install a 7800 Dura Ace crankset in its place. That was 4 tools total I think just for crankset, and none of them where in those 'kits'. I decided to actually look for each tool I needed individually and do some research on each one to find a good one for the best price. I found amazon usually had best prices and in many cases Park Tool was the cheapest and highly recommended (or only a few dollars more) for many things. Park tool also has great insturction and videos on youtube (and their website). Luckily I have lots of free time to surf the web on my nightshifts, and piece by piece I read over months and months to figure out what tools I needed and how to do it.
Thank you for your perspective. Most of the work I do will probably involve vintage bikes and components, but I will most likely also be adding some new stuff to my Bridgestone XO-2.

Last edited by johnnyace; 10-28-16 at 06:17 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-26-16 | 08:51 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
I bought this tool kit from Performance Bike. I think I paid $39 (on sale). It has plenty of the bicycle specific tools. I bought some long handled hex wrenches (at Aldi's of all places).

But the most valued tool.... is a good bicycle workstand/repair stand.
That seems like a decent set at a great price, with several things that I need. Agreed on the repair stand. What make/model do you have?

EDIT: One of the reviews on the Spin Doctor tools kits suggests that "The lockring tool is for modern lockrings, not for the ones found on fixies or for the lockrings found on loose bearing bottom brackets from 80s road bikes." Not sure that would be a good choice, given that.

Last edited by johnnyace; 10-26-16 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 10-26-16 | 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyace
That seems like a decent set at a great price, with several things that I need. Agreed on the repair stand. What make/model do you have?

EDIT: One of the reviews on the Spin Doctor tools kits suggests that "The lockring tool is for modern lockrings, not for the ones found on fixies or for the lockrings found on loose bearing bottom brackets from 80s road bikes." Not sure that would be a good choice, given that.
You will find some bicycle will require specific tools. But I wouldn't worry about what might be needed at some future date.

My first restore... required more elbow grease that anything else. And then aluminum foil and chrome cleaner.

I picked up my bicycle repair stand at Performance. But I also found a decent one on Amazon I bought for a grandson.
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Old 10-27-16 | 09:25 AM
  #46  
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I had a conversation a few summers ago at a WI bike shop with a veteran builder from the Waterford Schwinn Paramount days (up through Gunnar) who now owns his shop and does custom builds. Cool guy. When assessing my bike mechanics skill levels he asked, "Do you have a vice grip in your tool kit?" A "yes" answer is apparently a bad indication. When I answered "no" he was willing to continue conversing (after winking at his co-worker).

+1 on proper tools, but I admit to starting with a cheap kit. I started by taking apart old wheels and cleaning/regreasing/re-assembling hubs. It gives you a feel for bearings and races and loading, etc. And it doesn't require a stand or awkward bending over.

Last edited by dbg; 10-27-16 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 10-28-16 | 04:17 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by dbg
I had a conversation a few summers ago at a WI bike shop with a veteran builder from the Waterford Schwinn Paramount days (up through Gunnar) who now owns his shop and does custom builds. Cool guy. When assessing my bike mechanics skill levels he asked, "Do you have a vice grip in your tool kit?" A "yes" answer is apparently a bad indication. When I answered "no" he was willing to continue conversing (after winking at his co-worker).

+1 on proper tools, but I admit to starting with a cheap kit. I started by taking apart old wheels and cleaning/regreasing/re-assembling hubs. It gives you a feel for bearings and races and loading, etc. And it doesn't require a stand or awkward bending over.
That story about the veteran builder and his vice grip pass/fail test says more about him than about you.

Vice grips are used by some poor mechanics, but they're also used by some of the best mechanics. For example, if you know how to use one properly, no tool is better than a vice grip for delicate, precise bending of metal fittings. It's the mediocre mechanics who think that they're too good to use vice grips.
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Old 10-28-16 | 06:21 AM
  #48  
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UPDATE: For now, I picked up this basic tool kit for $30. Between this and the basic tools I already have, this should get me started. As I gain more experience, I can evaluate which tools I want to replace with better quality.

Professional 44pcs Bicycle Cycling Repair Tool Kit Bike Mechanic Tool set W2G3 | eBay
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Old 10-28-16 | 07:44 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman
..and many of the skills needed are not limited to mechanical systems. Logic, math, basic physics and observation all are critical in order to successfully work on bikes.
No offense meant to the other mechanics giving advice, but this answer gets right down to it doesn't it? My take from this is that you've got to actually start working on bikes, the more the better, and troubleshooting problems to learn the logic and basic physical mechanics.
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Old 10-31-16 | 11:18 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by kingston
1. Get an old bike
2. Take it completely apart
3. Clean everything
4. Replace consumables
5. Put the bike back together
Repeat

After a few bikes you will be a master
As a career wrench, that might make you a master of that bike, but may be nearly starting over with the next bike.....they're that different.

30 years in the business, and stuff still comes out of the woodwork that has me shaking my head....
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