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Axle diameters

Old 05-01-17, 08:31 PM
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andyto2
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Axle diameters

Can any diameter nut axle work with a wheel?

Some hubs are skinny but as long as the axle doesn't rub against the hub while its perfectly straight through it than its possible? If the axle is bigger in diameter, and since cones are slightly slanted, the bearings would rub higher up on the smaller diameter part of the cone...In which case a bearing might pop out? Could you solve this problem by getting a smaller diameter (but same thread size ofcourse) cone, and or just get smaller bearings??



I have an old bicycle wheel from the 1980s or 90s, 27 *1/1/4. I stripped its axle so I'm wondering which spare axle I should use thanks
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Old 05-01-17, 09:08 PM
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It's difficult to help you with such a muddling of bike terminology and the English language (no such thing as a "nut axle") but I'll make a stab at it. The best option is to obtain an axle that is the same diameter (inches or MM) and pitch (threads per inch or mm). If the cones are still in good shape then you're done. If you have to replace axle and cones then complications arise, including where the balls run on the cone and the dust cap (has have larger inside diameter than the cone but outside has to be specific size to fit into the hub). Take the axle to a bike shop, or if nothing near, test nuts at a hardware store to find out what the threading and diameter is and order the right one (including at least as long as the present one).
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Old 05-01-17, 09:08 PM
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There are a number of thread possibilities, all looking pretty similar.

Common on many better bikes is a metric 10x1mm thread. Others include 3/8"x either 24 or 26tpi.

You have to match the thread exactly, otherwise, you'll make things worse rather than better. Bring whatever is good to a bike shop, and they'll fit possible matches trial and error, to find EXACTLY what you need.
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Old 05-01-17, 09:30 PM
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What brand of hub? is there a brand name, or any numbers stamped in the center of the hub body? front, or rear hub?

and a 27" WHEEL says that it's more likely from the 70's, or even earlier.

and you NEED the CORRECT cones and matching size of bearing balls.... sounds kinda like you are trying to stuff a rear axle SET into a FRONT axle... bad idea!
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Old 05-01-17, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
There are a number of thread possibilities, all looking pretty similar.

Common on many better bikes is a metric 10x1mm thread. Others include 3/8"x either 24 or 26tpi.

You have to match the thread exactly, otherwise, you'll make things worse rather than better. Bring whatever is good to a bike shop, and they'll fit possible matches trial and error, to find EXACTLY what you need.
Well that's what I'm trying to understand. Why cant you just mix and match thread measurements of any kind on a given hub? You could just change the bearing size as well as the cones to match whatever axle fits through the hub and is long enough.


Originally Posted by maddog34 View Post
What brand of hub? is there a brand name, or any numbers stamped in the center of the hub body? front, or rear hub?

and a 27" WHEEL says that it's more likely from the 70's, or even earlier.

and you NEED the CORRECT cones and matching size of bearing balls.... sounds kinda like you are trying to stuff a rear axle SET into a FRONT axle... bad idea!
Its a Shimano Rear Hub made in Singapore. I don't see any numbers (the hub is kinda rusty lawl) but there is an "A B" after it says Singapore. And the rim says V170 made in Canada.
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Old 05-01-17, 11:21 PM
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If it has multiple cogs, it's a 10mmx1mm axle.
VERY common.

It'll be either solid and use nuts
or
Hollow, using a Quick Release.
Just get the correct length needed.
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Old 05-01-17, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by andyto2 View Post
Well that's what I'm trying to understand. Why cant you just mix and match thread measurements of any kind on a given hub? You could just change the bearing size as well as the cones to match whatever axle fits through the hub and is long enough......
Yes, you can replace the axle and cones and nuts, if any going with whatever thread is available, as long as you're consistent. However, the curvature of the bearing race may not be an ideal match, and more important, the dustcaps, or whatever seal system likely won't match.

Since you say it's a Shimano hub, odds greatly favor it being a 10x1 axle, which should be the most available replacement in Singapore. So, odds are you don't have to get involved in trying to match up some complete kit with cones and nuts.
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Old 05-02-17, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by andyto2 View Post
..... Why cant you just mix and match thread measurements of any kind on a given hub? .......
Because you will not get the intended strength and stiffness - in other words - the wheel might fail.

No one will knowingly accept the liability of changing the design for you. We are all going to say to follow the manufacturer's design, or come up with something where you and only you are accepting the liability.

More technical: the wheel bearings are angular contact, as the angle is changed, the radial and axial stiffness and strength vary. Cups and cones are manufactured to work with a very limited range of ball sizes and ball track radii. Depending on how the particular cup (or cone) is made, catastrophic failure may result in using the part outside it's intended design.

Smaller balls will result in higher stress concentrations. Sufficiently larger ball (<~10% oversize or more) will not mate properly with the cup/cone surface and may have multiple wear tracks. One of these might be a rolling track (good) and the others will be sliding tracks (very bad).
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Old 05-04-17, 12:13 AM
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Alright I give in seems too complicated this axial stiffness and come angle business. The closest cone match I got were ones where the ends rubbed against my dust caps ;/ I took the dust caps off so I can ride it for now lol
Thanks for the replies

Does knowing that it's a 10*1mm axle and Shimano hub automatically give me the exact cones I need? I'd prefer to order online than take it to a bike shop
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Old 05-04-17, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by andyto2 View Post
Alright I give in seems too complicated this axial stiffness and come angle business. The closest cone match I got were ones where the ends rubbed against my dust caps ;/ I took the dust caps off so I can ride it for now lol
Thanks for the replies

Does knowing that it's a 10*1mm axle and Shimano hub automatically give me the exact cones I need? I'd prefer to order online than take it to a bike shop
Not even in our dreams.
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Old 05-04-17, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
Because you will not get the intended strength and stiffness - in other words - the wheel might fail.

No one will knowingly accept the liability of changing the design for you. We are all going to say to follow the manufacturer's design, or come up with something where you and only you are accepting the liability.

More technical: the wheel bearings are angular contact, as the angle is changed, the radial and axial stiffness and strength vary. Cups and cones are manufactured to work with a very limited range of ball sizes and ball track radii. Depending on how the particular cup (or cone) is made, catastrophic failure may result in using the part outside it's intended design.

Smaller balls will result in higher stress concentrations. Sufficiently larger ball (<~10% oversize or more) will not mate properly with the cup/cone surface and may have multiple wear tracks. One of these might be a rolling track (good) and the others will be sliding tracks (very bad).
+1

Using a "thicker" axle will require cones that are a bit "less deep", in order to maintain the angle. Vice-versa, using a slightly thinner axle will require beefier cones with similar angle. All in order to match the required radius of the cone.
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Old 05-04-17, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by andyto2 View Post
Well that's what I'm trying to understand. Why cant you just mix and match thread measurements of any kind on a given hub? You could just change the bearing size as well as the cones to match whatever axle fits through the hub and is long enough.
Threaded parts simply have to match. If you try to mix threads, your axle nut will go on for about 1 1/2 turns then get real hard to tighten further. If you persist, you'll tear up the threads.

If you want to modify hub innerds, it's usually best to make everything else match up to the correct cones for your hub shell. You can source axles, cones and locknuts fairly easily. Finding a dust shield that matches both your hub shell and whatever non-conforming cone you are using might be another matter.

You can almost never change just one part on a bicycle. Everything works together so, when you change one part, you almost always have to change something else too.
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Old 05-04-17, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Threaded parts simply have to match. If you try to mix threads, your axle nut will go on for about 1 1/2 turns then get real hard to tighten further. If you persist, you'll tear up the threads.

If you want to modify hub innerds, it's usually best to make everything else match up to the correct cones for your hub shell. You can source axles, cones and locknuts fairly easily. Finding a dust shield that matches both your hub shell and whatever non-conforming cone you are using might be another matter.

You can almost never change just one part on a bicycle. Everything works together so, when you change one part, you almost always have to change something else too.
With at least one important exception. A m10x 1 nut will very easily thread on to a 3/8 x 26 axle, but the thread engagement will be very sloppy and can strip the threads when torqued down.
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