Hardrock BB
#5
mechanically sound
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,610
Likes: 87
From: Dover, NH
Bikes: Indy Fab steel deluxe, Aventon cordoba, S-works stumpy fsr, Masi vincere, Dahon mu uno, Outcast 29 commuter
The parts spec seems similar to my 92 hardrock, which btw has a cup and cone bb that I still use, and works well. I did switch out the seatpost from a straight post with steel clamp to a modern alloy one-piece kalloy.
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#7
Pokemon Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 8
From: Arkansas
Bikes: All City Cosmic Stallion, Salsa Colossal, Surly Preamble, 1985 Schwinn High Sierra x3
That looks really good. I'd say keep the original cup and cone bottom bracket if it isn't pitted. How did you repair the top tube ding?
#8
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,589
Likes: 8
I'd absolutely upgrade the Bottom Bracket
the one you've got is the cheaper style, with nuts instead of bolts on the ends.
and caged bearings are terrible; to make room for a cage they use fewer bearings (9 instead of 11), which decreases lifespan.
it's also common for the cage to deform and end up wedging the balls.
also would get a modern lower profile crankset on there.
The spider on that old style extends out way too far and snags my heels when pedaling. YMMV
at the very least, replace the cages with loose packed balls. fresh set of 11 per side, 1/4" balls
the one you've got is the cheaper style, with nuts instead of bolts on the ends.
and caged bearings are terrible; to make room for a cage they use fewer bearings (9 instead of 11), which decreases lifespan.
it's also common for the cage to deform and end up wedging the balls.
also would get a modern lower profile crankset on there.
The spider on that old style extends out way too far and snags my heels when pedaling. YMMV
at the very least, replace the cages with loose packed balls. fresh set of 11 per side, 1/4" balls
#9
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: Motor City
Bikes: 2012 Giant Escape, 199? Specialized HardRock
#10
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: Motor City
Bikes: 2012 Giant Escape, 199? Specialized HardRock
I'd absolutely upgrade the Bottom Bracket
the one you've got is the cheaper style, with nuts instead of bolts on the ends.
and caged bearings are terrible; to make room for a cage they use fewer bearings (9 instead of 11), which decreases lifespan.
it's also common for the cage to deform and end up wedging the balls.
also would get a modern lower profile crankset on there.
The spider on that old style extends out way too far and snags my heels when pedaling. YMMV
at the very least, replace the cages with loose packed balls. fresh set of 11 per side, 1/4" balls
the one you've got is the cheaper style, with nuts instead of bolts on the ends.
and caged bearings are terrible; to make room for a cage they use fewer bearings (9 instead of 11), which decreases lifespan.
it's also common for the cage to deform and end up wedging the balls.
also would get a modern lower profile crankset on there.
The spider on that old style extends out way too far and snags my heels when pedaling. YMMV
at the very least, replace the cages with loose packed balls. fresh set of 11 per side, 1/4" balls
#12
Mad bike riding scientist




Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,155
Likes: 6,211
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
And a cartridge bearing BB will last about 10 times as long as a loose bearing BB like this one. No one but you will know that it wasn't "original".
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Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#14
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 262
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From: Motor City
Bikes: 2012 Giant Escape, 199? Specialized HardRock
All paint used is Rustoleum rattlecan, wetsanded between each coat, currently waiting on clearcoat to completely cure before final polish. I started this paint process in mid October, patience is the key here! Frame was completely sandblasted prior to paint.
#15
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 262
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From: Motor City
Bikes: 2012 Giant Escape, 199? Specialized HardRock
Why stick with the original bottom bracket, especially if it is a loose bearing BB? This isn't a "restoration" since you've painted the frame. Assuming a loose bearing BB, there's no sense in keeping a bottom bracket that needs constant maintenance. There was nothing about loose bearing BBs that was or is superior. A cartridge bearing bottom bracket works better, lasts longer, is easier to work on...requires no extra work or adjustment to intstall... and doesn't need constant attention.
And a cartridge bearing BB will last about 10 times as long as a loose bearing BB like this one. No one but you will know that it wasn't "original".
And a cartridge bearing BB will last about 10 times as long as a loose bearing BB like this one. No one but you will know that it wasn't "original".
#16
Senior Member

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 660
Bikes: yes
Depends on the crank, but this should help: Sheldon Brown's Bottom Bracket Size Database
And yeah, the Hardrocks were on the lower tier of Spesh's lineup, so there's nothing to be gained by keeping it original. I prefer the simplicity of threaded cartridge BBs, $30 and they'll last a million miles*
*may not actually be a million
And yeah, the Hardrocks were on the lower tier of Spesh's lineup, so there's nothing to be gained by keeping it original. I prefer the simplicity of threaded cartridge BBs, $30 and they'll last a million miles*
*may not actually be a million
#17
Mad bike riding scientist




Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,155
Likes: 6,211
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Anyone with English threading. AKA 1.375" X 24 tpi (threads per inch). For the existing crank, the only issue would be the length of the spindle. But you should be able to measure the existing spindle and get that length.
A Shimano UN55 is the model number. They are dirt cheap even when paying full retail at your local LBS.
A Shimano UN55 is the model number. They are dirt cheap even when paying full retail at your local LBS.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#18
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: Motor City
Bikes: 2012 Giant Escape, 199? Specialized HardRock
Anyone with English threading. AKA 1.375" X 24 tpi (threads per inch). For the existing crank, the only issue would be the length of the spindle. But you should be able to measure the existing spindle and get that length.
A Shimano UN55 is the model number. They are dirt cheap even when paying full retail at your local LBS.
A Shimano UN55 is the model number. They are dirt cheap even when paying full retail at your local LBS.
#19
Old fart



Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26,350
Likes: 5,262
From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
A loose bearing bottom bracket doesn't need "constant maintenance;" it only needs routine maintenance. And with routine maintenance, usually no more often than annually, and often less, it can last for decades. What makes them "superior" to cartridges is that they are not single-use, disposable items.
#20
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,589
Likes: 8
Personally I'd never have the patience, I'd rather just pay an auto shop to power coat and be done with it.
#21
Mad bike riding scientist




Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,155
Likes: 6,211
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
A loose bearing bottom bracket doesn't need "constant maintenance;" it only needs routine maintenance. And with routine maintenance, usually no more often than annually, and often less, it can last for decades. What makes them "superior" to cartridges is that they are not single-use, disposable items.
As for lasting "decades" that's not been my experience with loose bearing bottom brackets. Even with higher end "sealed" loose bearing bottom brackets (the "seal" is an o-ring around the spindle), they never lasted "decades". Cartridge bearing bottom brackets, on the other hand, can last for decades with no maintenance at all. Yes, they are a disposable but if you have one for 20 years, I'd say you've gotten you money's worth out of it.
Back in the bad old days of mountain biking, loose bearing bottom brackets had to be taken apart much more often than once a year and they were often had pitted spindles and occasionally pitted cups. The bottom bracket...along with the headset...was the most fiddly and commonly replaced part on early mountain bikes. It felt like we had to by headsets by the gross and bottom bracket spindles by the dozen.
I've never worn out a cartridge bearing bottom bracket of any flavor. I've had dozens of them and they have all met their demise because of upgraditis rather than because they have worn out. The (supposedly) fragile external bottom bracket on my commuter bike has around 17,000 miles on it now and is still going strong...without out any fiddling.
Finally, I volunteer at a bike co-op and have had the opportunity to see thousands of bikes over several years of volunteering. Loose bearing bottom brackets are often pitted and worn while I seldom see a cartridge bearing bottom bracket that has worn out. Maybe one a year, at most.
So, if by "single-use, disposable items" you mean something that doesn't need maintenance, is easy to install and can be ridden until nearly the end of time, then, yes, cartridge bottom brackets are "single use" items. It's just that it takes roughly forever to reach the end of the "single use".
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Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#22
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: Motor City
Bikes: 2012 Giant Escape, 199? Specialized HardRock
I did have to replace the BB on my 2012 Giant Escape so I already have the BB tool, so cartridge it is!
Last edited by DEW21; 12-08-17 at 05:37 PM.
#23
Interocitor Command

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,375
Likes: 65
From: The adult video section
Bikes: 3 Road Bikes, 2 Hybrids
You're doing an excellent job for a first restoration. Very involved. Love the color too.
However, I would also go with a sealed square taper BB cartridge.
However, I would also go with a sealed square taper BB cartridge.
#24
Old fart



Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26,350
Likes: 5,262
From: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Would replacing a cartridge bearing bottom bracket every couple years also be "constant maintenance?" I've replaced plenty of cartridges at that service interval on customers' bikes over the years. Granted, some high quality cartridges can last far longer, but the same can be said for high quality loose-bearing bottom brackets. I've had the same Campagnolo Nuovo Record bottom bracket in one of my bike since 1981 and it's still going strong with maintenance only every five years or so.
#25
Mad bike riding scientist




Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,155
Likes: 6,211
From: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Would replacing a cartridge bearing bottom bracket every couple years also be "constant maintenance?" I've replaced plenty of cartridges at that service interval on customers' bikes over the years. Granted, some high quality cartridges can last far longer, but the same can be said for high quality loose-bearing bottom brackets. I've had the same Campagnolo Nuovo Record bottom bracket in one of my bike since 1981 and it's still going strong with maintenance only every five years or so.
And, while high quality loose bearing bottom brackets can last quite a while, those are rarities. Most loose bearing bottom brackets are very poor quality to start with. I'm somewhat surprised that DEW21's has a loose bearing bottom bracket at all. I bought a 1990 HardRock new and I'm reasonable certain that it had a cartridge bearing BB
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!




