How about this question on wheels
 

Some people seem to have an aversion to "computer built wheels", and want hand built wheels.

So the question is what is your experience with the two types. In my case my Rans Stratus has approx 16000 miles on it, and im pretty sure it has computer built wheels, a 20" and a 26" wheel. As of yet they are absolutely true.

So yes what is your experience.

I don't even know for sure what "machine built wheels" means today. I don't know what modern wheel building machines look like or how they work. I know that I like having hand built wheels on my personal bikes because I get satisfaction from building them myself.

Since I'm operating with zero failures with either one, what possible basis for comparison should I be using?

A machine built wheel can be "touched up" by a human and then result in an excellent wheel.

I've only bought one cheap ($30ish) front wheel for a mountain bike flip.
All the spokes were about 2mm short of the screw driver slot.
1/2 were tensioned just like I would.
Every other spoke was about 1/2 proper tension.
Width between the brake tracks varied about 1/32".

the wheels built at the distributor level are combining parts at their cost, and so can cost less than a identical wheel

hand built by the retail shop..

new bikes you buy use the production efficiency of a wheel building machine all spoke nips turned the same time..

yes the retail shoppe will hand test the finished product if asked.





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It's like with "steel cut" oatmeal. No one really knows what that means, but it sure sounds good.

Back in the day perhaps the machines weren't so good, so one did want a human at the end to add the finishing touches. Maybe that's still true, though I think machines have come a long way.

Today I see "hand built" as suggesting a certain level of love and care and attention to detail. You can know that someone who loves bikes obsessed over building your wheel, as opposed to a machine operator pushing buttons.

IIRC I read an interview with someone from a company that makes wheel building machines. The quality of the finished wheel has a lot to do with how many times the machine does its thing. The manufacturer decides how many cycles is good enough. More cycles=more time=more cost to mfg per wheel. Maybe someone remembers this better and can provide a link.

Even the phrase "hand-built" doesn't necessarily mean what people think. For example, as of a few years ago ALL Shimano wheels were hand-built.
A look inside Shimano's shrouded wheel factory | Cyclingnews.com

Here's a recent example from DT Swiss.

To a large extent, wheel quality comes down to time & effort. Steps like stress reliving and re-tensioning take more time than a simple load and tighten. Ultimately, a personal custom wheel builder is more likely to be able to cope with variation. For example, "does this rider need less tension because they're light?". Assembly line factory wheels have the advantage of starting higher quality consistent parts. There's no mailing parts across the country and then discovering that the rim is a hair bent, out of spec rims would simply be binned.

Both approaches can produce excellent and reliable wheels. Factory wheels generally have access to features that a custom builder won't (for compatibility). Custom builds can give you a wheelset perfectly suited to an individual's riding style.

A machine built wheel with tangential spokes on both sides usually isn't symmetrical - trailing spokes on one side will be heads in, and heads out on the other. This will annoy anyone with a touch of OCD.

Machine built wheels used to be relatively crap because the machines couldn't handle spoke wind-up, so they were made without enough tension.

Seems like that issue has been solved, because cheap wheels are much better these days.

I have owned three sets of "machine built wheels".

The first was a pair of Wheelsmith wheels with Mavic CXP33 rims on Dura Ace hubs, 32H, 3X with Wheelsmith 2.0/1.7/2.0 spokes. The were perfectly true right from the start and needed no attention until the brake tracks got too thin to trust after about 30,000 miles.

The second was a pair of wheel from Colorado Cyclist with, again CXP-33 rims, Campy Chorus hubs, 32H, DT 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes. CC claimed were "hand tensioned and trued" but machine assembled and initially trued and tensioned. They have been equally reliable and one (the front) is still in use after 41,000 miles.

The third is a set of Shimano WH-R560 prebuilt wheels. They have specific hubs and rims with 16 radial laced bladed spokes in front, 20 blade rear spokes, ten radial drive side and ten 2X non-drive side. These are now 27,000 miles old and still perfectly true and solid. They have never needed any truing or attention.

Conclusion: Modern machine built wheels can be very satisfactory if you buy good quality components from a reputable maker.

Modern, robot-built wheels are a far cry from the old Holland Mechanics wheel building machines. As long as your supplier uses high-quality robots, there's not likely much difference from a hand-built wheel.

N.B. Lacing the spokes still requires human intervention:

Too much of it depends on who's building the wheels. I have a cheap, heavy pair of [assuming] machine built wheels from Performance Bike that have stayed remarkably true for the last 12-18 months, every bit as true as my hand built HED wheels. I've also had machine built wheels that came with my Giant Propel go out of true in a matter of weeks. I had a hand built set of wheels from a local shop do the same.

I honestly couldn't say that I trust either any more or less than the other, it just depends on who's doing the building.

I didn't see a stress-relieving step in that process.

No in that particular video but I've seen other where the truing/tensioning machine definitely includes a good stress-relieving procedure.

10 years ago or so I bought some machine built Open Pros on Ultegra hubs for cheap on Nashbar. Terrible tension out of the box and they went out 100 miles but I took them to my LBS and had them tension and true them. Bombproof and true for 1000s of miles after that.

Now, the wheel machines are so much better.

Steel cut oats vs rolled

The oat seed is cut into pieces rather than being flattened.

From some videos I've seen, it looks like many wheels are hand laced then tensioned in a machine. I've also seen a very old video of a machine that laces the wheel as well as tensioning it. The problem, however, is that the tensioning isn't something that lends itself to the level of programing that we currently have. There are too many variables for the spokes to be tightened up to a specific tension and just left there. You can do that by hand and you'll probably have a very wobbly wheel. Robots are really good at doing something repetitive but they aren't so good a making judgements.

I have friends who have bought wheels for their touring bikes and I would assume that they were machine built.
They haven't had problems with them.

I'd have to disagree about the level of tech available to wheel manufacturers. If it's using the 20+ year old tech of (typically) pneumatic driven, mechanical spring-clutch drivers, then yes, it'll only go to a set torque and leave it there.

Most modern assembly is being done with DC driven tools that are both torque and position controlled. The tension-release-re-tension cycle is no big deal for a tool like this. Even the programing for a sequence like that is drag-and-drop. Add in vision or tactile feedback for rim true, and i bet you could get a pretty decent rim right 'out of the box'

I have one setup that does the valve lash on a single cylinder OHV engine in about 45 sec, so the tech is out there.