Colnago Mixte

I dunno maybe that headset is shot, they do wear out eventually, and they're not that expensive, just a PITA to take out and replace.

Is this something close to your bike? Headset is 22 years old, and doesn't look like super top quality to begin with.

jj1091

One of the things I do when restoring/rebuilding is to remove any headset retainers, and just use loose bearings. It completely eliminates any "which way is right" issue. Takes a bit more time to place in the cups, but since you're eliminating the gaps in the retainer ring, it allows for one or two more bearings, which lessens future wear.

Colnago Mixte

Do you have a source for loose headset ball bearings?

Papa Tom

Colnago - Mine is the GT Outpost, not the Outpost Trail, but the components are about the same. It definitely isn't top quality, but it has been everywhere with me and I don't want to let it go. As mentioned earlier, I used to have a cup press for my bike recycling program. Now it's gone.

JJ - Replacing the retainers with loose balls is starting to seem like a good idea. I have never done it, though. I suppose the grease is enough to keep the balls from falling down the head tube?

Colnago- I'm sure I can get loose bearings at any of the several higher-end, very expensive local bike shops around me.

I may not get to any of this until next weekend, though, so stay tuned.

Colnago Mixte

I have done the loose ball thing, and I guess it's cheaper than a new headset. It's just distressing when you loosen a headset, forgetting you have loose balls in there, and you start hearing the pitter patter of tiny bb's hitting the floor and scattering. And knowing you will have to find every single one.

I do think if the headset is at all salvageable, that should be the cheapest way to fix it.

andrewclaus

Have you checked the head tube for cracks? Are the cups set firm?

Because of the number of BBs, the rebuilding problem mentioned above, and the small rotation duty in the life of the headset, the headset is a good place for retainer cages. I'll remove retainer cages in hubs and bottom brackets, but not in headsets.

Papa Tom

I've checked for cracks in both the head tube and the fork. Negative. The cups are set firm. Good point about the loose balls.

If the fork is still stuttering when I ride to work tomorrow, I think I will do one more reset of the headset, this time with the balls in the bearing retainer facing the cone, even though they won't fit snuggly. You never know.

jj1091

Here's one site, $10.84 including shipping. 5/32" balls, bottle of 150.
​​​​​​https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Wheels-...024!US!-1#rwid

Also, about keeping the balls in with grease so they don't drop into the headset. What I do, is apply grease to both the bottom cup and the fork race, then hold the bike upside down with the fork inserted into the headtube, open the space up a bit, then drop into the bottom cup the appropriate number of bearing balls (probably 21). This way the bearings can't escape past the fork's tube into the headtube.

Then, rotate the bike back upright while tightly holding the fork into the headtube, so the gap doesn't open and the bearings fall out. Now that it's vertical, grease the top cup and top race, then drop in the bearings. Tighten it all up, good to go.

jj1091

That's why every bike I rebuild is rebuilt with loose bearings. I don't have any way to "forget" that there's loose bearings in there, because there always are.

trailangel

You gonna fix the headset or you gonna keep patching tubes?

79pmooney

I don't remember this from your first post on that other thread so I'll ask - is this stutter new? If yes, I'd inspect the heck out of that fork and steerer, It could be trying to tell you it is about to die. You don't want to be riding it when does. I posted then on the bike that quite quickly developed a wild stutter. Rode it home not touching the front brake. On inspection, I saw that one fork blade was cracked 3/4 of the way around, the other, 1/4.

I'd pull the fork, pull the headset, clean it up nice and inspect everything with a magnifying glass in good light. We are talking the worst possible place for a bike to fail; a widow-maker. (BTDT, Trust me, you don't want to go there.) Edit: this is steel, Good forks are hard to bend. Try hard to pull the blades apart, together and back and forth. If they are healthy they won't care, if they bend easily or make a sound you will now see that crack you couldn't find. You may see it just from the flex you applied. Good forks are strong, Bare-handed, a healthy tug won't touch them. (Yes, you might bend them if you really tug but you will lose far less than riding them and having them go. And if they are steel, you can bend them back.)

Ben

Papa Tom

I don't know WHAT to do first, man. My girl is fallin' apart on me.

Papa Tom

I've checked them both out. There is a slight scratchy-looking mark on the fork, but it appears to be more of a blemish than a crack. I have put a good amount of weight and pressure on the fork and there doesn't seem to be any movement.

At this point, the issue seems to be in the way the fork and stearer are fitting into the headtube. Something is not right with the way the bearings are falling into place. I may have fixed it, as today's ride to work was uneventful. But as somebody alluded to above (maybe as a dig, but who cares), I'm not sure what to focus on first these days, as my 22-year-old bike seems to be developing all the symptoms of old age at one time.