Wheel Build Question:
 

So this off season I want to build a set of wheels, have always wanted to do this.
Upfront, I am will say I am 300 lbs., goes up and down but that would be heaviest. I ride a Spec. Allez with 11 speed Shimano.
Current wheels are a set of 36 spoke on 25mm tires.


On the front I am not so worried about spoke count, I have a bike with 28 and a 32 and neither have ever posed a issue truing or popping spokes.

Rear is a different animal I know. All my bikes have 36 spoke wheels on the rear. When I go to start looking at rims if I can go down to a 32 drillings the rim options are endless, but if I stick with 36 I am really limited to just a slim few. Can I build a 32 rear rim that will not cause havoc? I ride pavement 95% of the time and roads around here are not too bad.

Don't worry about being brutally honest either. I would rather just hear it and go from there. If I couldn't take it I shouldn't ask.

thanks.

It "feels" like 32H rim would be capable of safely handling your load. I weigh 190 lbs and have a 24H rim that has seen some 2,000 miles without any problems whatsoever and I'm confident it could easily support 200+ pounds.

Best,
Jason

what are you trying to achieve with your wheelset? durability and longevity? what does 32 offer you that 36 doesn't?

fair question:
36 wheel options are well UGLY...there are some really nice looking 32H options. Durability is always on the forefront I guess. My current wheels look terrible to be fair and hubs are just not great quality I don't think. I don't care much about the actual weight of the wheels because I am the heavy part of the bike.

So really its just to a point of vanity and better quality hubs.

Jason I think the same way but wanted to get some wheel expert opinions here.....thanks!

Wheel life is not a black or white issue (excluding an incident like a pothole or curb impact). So when I read questions like "is a 32 spoke wheel going to hold up?" I say "sure but likely for less miles then a 36 spoke one, everything else being the same". Since things in life are generally "otherwise the same" the real life answers get even more shade of greys.

If this wheel is your first (or even third, fourth...) I would suggest siding on the more durable side of the fence. What you learn in building, riding and revisiting a self built wheel will likely make any future wheels last longer and make those future choices easier to judge. Andy

I like Andrew's approach. I gather you have trued wheels but have you built one from scratch? A rear?

I have zero issues with different front and rear rims. Outside of vanity, peer pressure and that wheels often come as sets, there is no good reason to keep them the same. If I were you, I'd ride the 28 spoke rim I liked the looks of up front and a good reliable 36 spoker in back. (You never see that rear rim riding.)

With several wheels under your belt, you may well want to lighten things up on the rear wheel. 1) you'll be building better wheels. 2) you'll be enjoying building wheels so if that sexier rear doesn't last quite as long. you get to build another. Fun!

Keep riding! Keep building wheels! It's a good life.

Edit: A +1 for the last poster, especially for emphasizing build quality. Factory built 36 spoke wheels are quite likely to be mediocre builds and not serve someone of your weight well. (Often they can if the spokes are loosened then re-tightened as a proper build. Factory builds are often the cheapest way to get all the parts. I've purchased quality Shimano hubs laced to Open Pro rims at Performance for $100.) If you build you own, the first (one, two or three) may well be no better but soon your wheels will be a large step up in quality and durability. (And as you build and after, hang out here and at bikeshops to ask and learn more re: wheelbuilding. It's an art, but don't be intimidated, anyone can learn it and there is no one unique approach you have to take. You will talk to engineer/scientists with one approach and measure nothing artists with radically different approaches who all build super wheels that are a joy to ride and own. You can too.

Ben

At 300 lbs, I'd definitely be using an offset rear rim for an 11 speed.
The additional width of the hub of 11 speed increases the dish, thus weakens the wheel. NDS spokes have marginal tension vs the DS ones.

As per spoke count- Do you ride or just look at them?

So I just got back from my bike shop. I have a great shop and talking to them and they had a pretty good idea actually. Being I have 36 spoke rims, why not just disassemble what I have, purchase new "pretty" better hubs and re-build. They suggested I strip the rims and just re-decal them with something else or leave plain black. rims now are black with some ugly decals that I could remove. Nothing wrong with the rims in reality.

I do run 11 speed and budged would be let say under $600? If that seems reasonable for some "blingy" hubs...…

I need to think this over a bit more maybe, this does seem like a good idea maybe

I like Phil and industry 9 hubs and I have thought of just doing this. I know its probably a bit more but its great option. I am looking for some red in my wheels.

At 300 lbs. and first wheel build I'd be thinking Velocity Dyad rims and thirty six 13/15/14 spokes. The Dyad rims are on the heavier side but they are a little bit easier to tension and true.

this made me laugh, because your correct. I really want to build a set but doesn't mean a person should. I have been playing with lacing and such so I feel confident but not experienced. I have help at my local shop of course they are great.

32 hole is suitable. i would pick spokes out wisely. leaning towards ones that has a 13g elbow. keep the rim weight on the heavy side. 500-600 gram. finally a good hub with a strong ratchet. make sure to service the ratchet to keep it clean and from clogging up.

A few more comments-

As to reusing a rim make sure it's straight and round still. How? By loosening up the spokes on it's current build just enough to have the slightest flop at the rim. Then spin and look at the rim's shape as it passes by. Amy flat spots or lateral bends will be seen better without the spokes prodding the bad spots away. It is rare that I reuse a rim for anyone but those who I already know their riding nature and expectations, like myself:)

I will second the choice of Phil Wood hubs. I have them on 5 current bikes (including 2 tourers and a tandem) and have built many others for customers. Phils are one of the few hubs that are pretty much fool proof, every time. They are what I call a life time investment. Andy

I'm assuming the bike has rim brakes and 130mm OLD rear hub. 130mm 11-speed hubs have a lot of offset. A truly durable wheel for a 300lb rider is going to require either and offset rim or a fairly deep rim. Rim depth and offset both help to balance out the left/right spoke tension, which reduces fatigue on the spokes, rim, and hub.

Just looking at offset 700c rims with a braking surface, the list is pretty short: Velocity A23, Kinlin XR31, Kinlin XR22, Kinlin XR26, Pacenti Forza. Those are all available in 32H, and half are available in 36H. You could also consider the non-offset DT Swiss R511, but not for a first build (nipple washer and proprietary nipples). For my money, I'd go with the Kinlin XR31 offset rim, either 32 or 36H.

White Industries T11 would probably be the best option (high flange, Ti freehub, steel axle all help with durability). For bonus points, it's available in 32 and 36H in red.

That leaves spokes. You can't go wrong with Sapim Force, Sapim CX Sprint, or DT Swiss Alpine III.

FWIW, I've been building and using a fair number or 32H rims and hubs on tandem wheels (in addition to 36H and 40H). The weights are pretty similar to the OP. The big difference with the tandem wheels is that the hubs are 148mm thru axle or 145mm QR, so the non-drive-side spokes can carry a fair bit of load.

Riding style?
 

, 20 or 30 years ago when I was listening to certain engineers and studying this question as closely as I could the consensus was, that a 32 hole wheel was vertically as strong and in some cases stronger than a 36-hole depending on Cross pattern to keep it simple a 32 hole 3 cross is a strong as you can get vertically. If we're talkin the same rim for each example.

​​​​​​ where more spokes make more sense is when you have higher torsional loads side loads and that is where you will notice a performance and endurance enhancement. So if you are the type of rider that spends a lot of time out of saddle honking the bike back and forth... Go with more spokes. If you're gonna pull a trailer a single wheel type especially go with more spokes the more torque you put against the rim can make a difference as well so fat high pressure tire is a larger lever against the rim so aggressive riding would be better served with more spokes in that case too.

this is what they taught us years ago .. if engineering has changed over the years I didn't keep up. But back then we had to wait for our velocity rims from Australia so we had piles of them. And we proved that if somebody really really wants to destroy a wheel they're going to be able to do it no matter what it is.

WOW this is great information, thank you all!

So sticking with 36H rear, the hope hub in red is BA! I am really liking that. Will check out the others yet, Phil stuff is cool cuz he has a great first name. King stuff is just too much I think and will stay away from that. I probably will not get cheap on the rims and just buy those new as well.

I really want red hubs...not a absolute but why not get what I want if I can.

FYI...rim breaks for me, I am active rider I would say and don't ride is abusive, but don't ride easy either. Front is a 100 and rear is 130 also.

Before you rule out Phil Wood on the weight issue, call them. There may be a specific piece of the hub that is the limiting factor. Perhaps they could build you one with that modified to work for you. All of their stuff is machined by them and built like it is custom. True custom may not cost any more than the weight.

If you call them, you will talk to the engineer. Challenges are what they do, Now, what you are asking osn't far off the ordinary and I bet they have a quick answer and a good solution for you. They have been building hubs for 'round the world tourists for 1/2 a century. (I contacted them for a bottom bracket with a spindle as narrow as possible so I could set up my crankset to have the chainring just miss the right chainstay paint and have the overall width as narrow as possible to keep the Q-factor down for my knees. They told me they could run a custom BB with any spindle I wanted, I sent them the asymmetry and overall width I wanted. Engineer came back telling me what I asked for could be done within the adjustibility of their narrow stock symmetrical BB and that they had one in stock. Worked out perfect.

Another real plus for Phil Wood - if your needs (or the current standards) change, the odds are very good that Phil can supply you with parts to refit the hub to the new use. If the hub is in a wheel you like - the update is likely a lot cheaper than a new hub (and spokes? and rim?) Also probably far quicker and easier. I have a front hub I got as a standard quick-release hub. Later I put the very stiff Jahndd (sp) LowRider rack on the bike. The rack was so stiff it was a real fight to get a QR wheel out unless I unscrewed and removed the quick-release. (Not QR.) Phil sold me a new axle with bolts. Much, much better!

I only have 3 Phil hubs and that BB. I wish I had more and that I had started acquiring them 40 years ago, Would have saved me money and hassle. They'd all still be running.

Ben

No! You absolutely do not want rim breaks! Now, I have no issues with caliper brakes, also known as rim brakes, but stay away from those breaks! They can lead to real pain. (You break a twig; you brake a train.) Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. :)

Ben