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Wheelbuilder question - spoke bend

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Wheelbuilder question - spoke bend

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Old 02-05-19, 06:09 PM
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Wheelbuilder question - spoke bend



i am ready to start a build with early 80s Record hubs to G40 rims. I want to use Wheelsmith DB14 spokes. This is my second wheel build; first time with Campy 8 speed Record hubs came out great. So got the spokes, just checking things out and inside out spoke comes out at a pretty large angle, which makes me worried about how much bend is needed to get to the eyelet. I checked on 3 other hubs ( no name generic, Royce high flange, another Record) and same thing. Is this OK and if not what should I do differently? Thinner spoke? A no name straight gauge spoke is also in the pic for comparison.
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Old 02-05-19, 06:23 PM
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I'd use different spokes,,, and this:
Sheldon Brown Initial Spoke Adjustment:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
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Old 02-05-19, 06:34 PM
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What do the spoke holes in the hubs look like? Do they have a chamfer on one or both sides? That spoke doesn't seem to fit into the hub all the way. I'd be looking for a chamfer in the spoke hole.
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Old 02-05-19, 06:42 PM
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really obsessive on details? the head making machine leaves flashing... back side of the head... file that smooth..

It was a German suggestion, by the people at Rohloff






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Old 02-05-19, 07:01 PM
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I was told a long time ago the Campy hubs (and that meant NR and Tipo then) were made to use 15 Ga spokes. Of course we (and I personally) laced them with 14Ga spokes many times with no issues. But this story does explain the greater bowing out of a just installed 14 Ga spoke with these hubs. I bend in the the spoke tighter against the flange after the initial lace up. Done this, maybe, hundreds of times over the years. Andy
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Old 02-05-19, 10:31 PM
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^^^ I'll ditto what Andy says. Once you've got the wheel laced but not tensioned it's common practice to push down on the outside spokes so the bend is a little tighter to the flange.
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Old 02-06-19, 03:00 AM
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Thanks all. I think I’ll go ahead and lace up the wheel with these and see how it goes. Hate to have to get a set of 15g...
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Old 02-06-19, 03:02 PM
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I laced it up today and it went smoothly; no gymnastics required to bring the spoke to the eyelet. The spokes dont lay up against the flange as snugly as Id like but I think its good enough to go ahead and tension it up.
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Old 02-06-19, 04:10 PM
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WABAC Find

a NOS Rim?
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Old 02-06-19, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
a NOS Rim?
Practically - a little blemish on one sidewall and some of the eyelets have a little corrosion but looks unridden. Got em from Doc Cannondale. I also have a true NOS set of 28h G40s that Im going to build up as soon as I can find the right rear hub. Either that or a set of 32h for 2 sets of 28-32 wheels.

BTW I got the wheel tensioned up and all is well. Looks like needless noob anxiety on my part.
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Old 02-08-19, 12:47 AM
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....personally, when a wheel I'm building laces up like that, I take it outside where I have a well worn wood sawhorse with a rubber mallet and hit the spokes just outboard of the flanges with the wood supporting the down side and the mallet impacting the top side spoke at each pair. That usually improves the line so that the spokes exiting outward are supported by the flanges (which is important...and they won't always pull up tight against the flange just from tensioning).

This doesn't much help improve the spokes that exit inward, so I pull on those with an old aluminum non-drive side crank arm wrapped in duct tape as a part of the stress relief routine for the bends at the head..
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Old 02-08-19, 08:13 AM
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To get the spokes to fit up tight along the flanges, I bring the spokes up to just enough tension so they are mostly straight and the wheel is fairly rigid. Then, using any old tool that will fit, insert it between crossing spokes next to the flange and pry gently inward on the heads in spoke and outward on the heads out spoke.

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Old 02-08-19, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
To get the spokes to fit up tight along the flanges, I bring the spokes up to just enough tension so they are mostly straight and the wheel is fairly rigid. Then, using any old tool that will fit, insert it between crossing spokes next to the flange and pry gently inward on the heads in spoke and outward on the heads out spoke.
Yes, this is ideal. This way, the tension will be caused less by the original bend, once you have bent the spokes to straightness.
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Old 02-08-19, 10:04 AM
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The tools I use to bend in the splaying out loose spokes ate those I can into the world equipped with, my fingers. It's less trying to get the spokes final arrangement (amount of the bending within the elbow, amount just after the elbow) that complete tension will achieve as it's about making the tensioning go faster and the feel of the nipple's turning more reflect the spoke tension increase then the spoke's being bent straight. (And yes some will say this is the same. I say then go build up a cheap steel hub that had thin flanges and little or no spoke splay initially. You'll feel the difference in how the nipples tighten up and how the rim responds during this initial tensioning up phase). Andy
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Old 02-08-19, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
The tools I use to bend in the splaying out loose spokes ate those I can into the world equipped with, my fingers. It's less trying to get the spokes final arrangement (amount of the bending within the elbow, amount just after the elbow) that complete tension will achieve as it's about making the tensioning go faster and the feel of the nipple's turning more reflect the spoke tension increase then the spoke's being bent straight. (And yes some will say this is the same. I say then go build up a cheap steel hub that had thin flanges and little or no spoke splay initially. You'll feel the difference in how the nipples tighten up and how the rim responds during this initial tensioning up phase). Andy
This.
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Old 02-08-19, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
The tools I use to bend in the splaying out loose spokes ate those I can into the world equipped with, my fingers. It's less trying to get the spokes final arrangement (amount of the bending within the elbow, amount just after the elbow) that complete tension will achieve as it's about making the tensioning go faster and the feel of the nipple's turning more reflect the spoke tension increase then the spoke's being bent straight. (And yes some will say this is the same. I say then go build up a cheap steel hub that had thin flanges and little or no spoke splay initially. You'll feel the difference in how the nipples tighten up and how the rim responds during this initial tensioning up phase). Andy
Ditto. Although I use my thumbs instead of fingers.
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Old 02-09-19, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
The tools I use to bend in the splaying out loose spokes ate those I can into the world equipped with, my fingers. It's less trying to get the spokes final arrangement (amount of the bending within the elbow, amount just after the elbow) that complete tension will achieve as it's about making the tensioning go faster and the feel of the nipple's turning more reflect the spoke tension increase then the spoke's being bent straight. (And yes some will say this is the same. I say then go build up a cheap steel hub that had thin flanges and little or no spoke splay initially. You'll feel the difference in how the nipples tighten up and how the rim responds during this initial tensioning up phase). Andy
Originally Posted by rccardr View Post


This.
Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
Ditto. Although I use my thumbs instead of fingers.
....don't you guys ever just want to hit something with a hammer ?
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Old 02-09-19, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
....don't you guys ever just want to hit something with a hammer ?
Yes. It's how I extract stubborn bottom bracket cups.
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Old 02-09-19, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
....don't you guys ever just want to hit something with a hammer ?
Last thing I used a hammer on was the chain stay sockets of a BB shell during angle manipulations. Although I have joked for years about the bike shop Olympics contest, "The 5 Meter Hammer Catch. Only the quickest of customers need enter Andy
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Old 02-12-19, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
....don't you guys ever just want to hit something with a hammer ?
As a rule, bicycle mechanics don't force anything. We just get a bigger hammer.
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