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105 shifter jamming up in very odd way......

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105 shifter jamming up in very odd way......

Old 06-24-19, 06:13 PM
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Brocephus
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105 shifter jamming up in very odd way......

Boy, when it rains, it pours ! I'm on a roll today !
So, I've been having some shifting issues on my road bike, and a barrel adjustment didn't improve anything so i fished up some You-tube vids on derailleur adjustments, and tossed the bike on my stand, and went to fidgeting (i've done adjustments before, but they do give me more trouble that you'd think they would, and I never did get it dialed in right today.)
Now, the right shifter has just jammed up, but not exactly completely. If I push the large lever, it only goes about half it's normal range, then locks up tight (and changes no gears).
But then I'll push the little lever, and it'll move normally to the left, and I'll hear the little click it would normally make, and this unlocks the big lever for one full, normal-feeling click (but still won't change a gear), and then it locks up like it did the first time.
So I can push the little lever, which unlocks the big lever, but for only one single push......lather, rinse, repeat.
I've done some searches, but couldn't find the identical issue. Disassembly is said to be a nightmare. The cable isn't broken. Numerous people recommended flushing it out with spray lube, which I've done, but no joy.
I'm thinking a trip to a bike shop will get me little more than a bill and the sage advice that I need to replace the shifter.
Any thoughts? (I mean, other than, "you need to replace the shifter" )

Last edited by Brocephus; 06-25-19 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 06-24-19, 06:35 PM
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The cable may not be completely broken, but it sounds like a few strands are broken inside the shifter. You should probably take it to the shop and hope they can fish out the cable without leaving any strands behind. Cables breaking inside Shimano road shifters are fairly common.
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Old 06-24-19, 06:35 PM
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Detach the cable from der. Pull on the detached end while moving the triggers.
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Old 06-24-19, 07:01 PM
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Thanks guys. I was just doing some digging around, and I'm reading this is a fairly common issue. I'll try and salvage it first, but I'm thinking I may have to dredge up a replacement.
BTW, it's kinda weird that both levers on the shifter move normally, if I push one, then the other, back and forth. So the big lever isn't always jammed, it just takes a push from the little lever to un-jamb it, but then it's jammed again.

QUOTE=Troul;20995208]Detach the cable from der. Pull on the detached end while moving the triggers.[/QUOTE]
I'ma go try that right now, but i read earlier a recommendation to tug on the cable like pulling a string on a bow, which I did try, but nothing happened

Last edited by Brocephus; 06-24-19 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 06-24-19, 07:13 PM
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You haven't said if you checked the derailleur and since it is easy to do I would :

1. Pull on the derailleur cable (grab it along the chain stay or down tube and pull sideways) to make sure the derailleur is not the issue. If the derailleur moves easily your problem is upstream.

2. Do what Troul said and "Detach the cable from der. Pull on the detached end while moving the triggers."

3. If it does not move pull the cable out of the housing to eliminate the unlikely chance the cable is stuck in the housing.

4. Assuming the cable is free in the housing you definitely have a shifter issue. Slide the cable end out of the shifter a few inches or more and inspect the cable for any damage (broken or loos strands, Cable end breaking loose, sharp bends, etc.) If the cable is damaged it is likely your problem and you should change it. If you can't get the cable out to inspect it, that is almost certain to be the problem. I have spent a bit of time with dental picks and needle nose pliers getting a broken cable end out of a shifter. There are videos on line of people drilling holes in the housing to remove cable ends that have broken off but I was too stubborn to give in and do that.

5. If the cable is fine you have other shifter issues. I would try flooding it again with your choice of spay lube, only this time you can pull on the free cable end with a little more pressure than while it was hooked to the derailleur.

6. If it is still stuck it may be time to go to your LBS, unless someone else has better advice.

Last edited by bikeaddiction1; 06-24-19 at 07:14 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-24-19, 07:34 PM
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If the cable is fraying inside the shifter, get it fixed before the end breaks off; you will have Hell to pay getting the broken-off head out.

As to adjustments, instead of "fidgeting", which as you have seen gets you nowhere except deeper in a hole, try a systematic approach: https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...eur-adjustment https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...eur-adjustment
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Old 06-24-19, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
If the cable is fraying inside the shifter, get it fixed before the end breaks off; you will have Hell to pay getting the broken-off head out.
Yup, thanks, I'm on that tomorrow.

Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
As to adjustments, instead of "fidgeting", which as you have seen gets you nowhere except deeper in a hole, try a systematic approach: https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...eur-adjustment https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...eur-adjustment
"Fidgeting" was just a figure of speech, I was meticulously pouring over numerous video tutorials, including the one from Calvin at Park Tool. I've watched the lengthy ones with mind-numbing detail, and the shorter, to-the-point ones, and still got nowhere.
But, I think my problem all along was this shifter. I'd noticed this week that the shifter was getting more difficult to get into the lower gears, and finally stopped making it to the lowest one (my hill climber!) I also noticed it while trying to the the rear der. adjusted today, and the shifter finally bit the dust.

Last edited by Brocephus; 06-24-19 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 06-24-19, 09:35 PM
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Usually a fraying cable leads to cable stretch, which manifests as frequent barrel adjustments until it breaks. Shifter operation usually isn't affected until it does break, and then you have other problems.

To lube the shifter thoroughly, you can remove the wheel or disconnect the brake so you can squeeze the lever all the way open for better access to all the holes and slots you can find. If lube doesn't do it, and you don't have an ultrasonic cleaner, you'll have to remove the shifter, partially disassemble it to expose the pawls, and work the pawls with a dental pick to find the sticking one. Hopefully you don't have a broken spring.

Sometimes penetrating oil works well.

The last 105 I worked on, a nine speed, had a broken spring on the bottom side. I figured that out when it only worked when upside down on the bench.
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Old 06-24-19, 10:06 PM
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hey guys, I'm just brainstorming here, but I'm toying with the idea of just converting this into a flatbar road bike, with a 10-spd mtn shifter, and just running the small chain ring (no FD).
I like mtn bars better than drop bars, and mtn thumb shifter better than road shifters, and my racing/serious training, and long distance days are long gone. I'm already running a wider tire on this bike, and I rarely use the big chainring at all.
Replacing the 105 shifter will be expensive, and from what I read, they're problematic, complicated, and don't last that long.
I can get a 10-spd XT right shifter for under $50, I can skip the left shifter entirely, and i already have a flat bar lying around.
The only concern is compatibility, I've read that the Dyna-Sys stuff has compatibility issues with everything else. Or would this Dyna-Sys XT 10-spd shifter run ok with a 10-spd 105 rear set up ?
Plausible, or stupid ?
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Old 06-25-19, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Brocephus View Post
\ Or would this Dyna-Sys XT 10-spd shifter run ok with a 10-spd 105 rear set up ?
No change the RD as well
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Old 06-25-19, 08:57 AM
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Update: I found that the cable was highly frayed in the der., so I pulled it out, and the unit started shifting normally !! Then i called a LBS and told him my situation and before I finished the first sentence, he practically finished the story for me, saying he just took a bike in with the exact same issue. He said it would probably run me about $20 to install a new cable and adjust the derailleur (which was what i was trying to do when this whole fiasco started !!) Hopefully, I'll be all dialed in by this afternoon. Thanks again to all for chiming in.)
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Old 06-25-19, 09:04 AM
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Frayed in the der.? Where?
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Old 06-25-19, 09:08 AM
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I'm guessing this was 10-speed (5700) 105.
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Old 06-25-19, 11:39 AM
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20 for that service & parts is a good price. Especially if its done the same day.
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Old 06-25-19, 05:19 PM
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Update, part deux: Before taking the bike to the shop, I was dabbing the inside with a q-tip to soak up some of that spray lube, when a (very) tiny spring just fell out. I had a bad feeling about that, and the shop guys reflected that sentiment when I mentioned it.
They told me they didn't do any rebuilds or reassembly on these parts (fair enough, i assumed as much), and that they had no clue how or where it re-attached (we all looked), and that this was a real issue now.
Long story, short, the consensus was it was now toast, and they quoted me a nice little pile of money to order a new one, and install it (even citing rewrapping the bar tape, LOL!).
I told them i was just gonna hang it on the wall in the garage for the moment, while i pondered my options (and finances), and would just ride another bike for the immediate future, and that I may be back in touch.
When i got home, i found an excellent video of a guy reassembling the same derailleur ( yes, it's the 10-speed 5700 105.)
Then I went outside, in some good light, looking around at where to try and re-attach this spring, when i saw a tiny piece of broken spring, stuck in place by some of the lube i sprayed in yesterday, and that pretty obviously came from the one that had fallen out.
So I didn't just screw up and accidentally remove it, it had previously broken, and then fallen out (good thing I even noticed it, or i'd have paid for a new cable and adjustment, and had problems from there).
I called Shimano customer service, hoping to just get the little spring, but was told they stopped making this shifter, and the parts, a few years ago, but he said they have quite a few in stock, gave me the correct product number so i could have a shop order it, or search for it myself.
So, I found the identical shifter from a reputable (and fast shipping) bike part dealer on ebay, for $114, delivered, which was as good a deal as I found, and that's where I am now.
Again, thanks to all for weighing in..........

Last edited by Brocephus; 06-26-19 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 06-26-19, 05:50 AM
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114.00 for a derailleur? That is steep!
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Old 06-26-19, 06:13 AM
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I can't tell if you are talking about the rear deraileur or the shifter? Which is it?
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Old 06-26-19, 06:40 AM
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DOH !!!! My bad, I meant shifter.
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Old 06-26-19, 07:47 AM
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You went with the new Tiagra shifter rather than the dated 105 shifter, right?
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Old 06-26-19, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
You went with the new Tiagra shifter rather than the dated 105 shifter, right?
Actually, no, that never even occurred to me. I just replaced the shifter with the identical 10-spd 105 unit. What's the story on the Tiagra ? (I believe my LBS was pushing a Sora on me, and that may have been what they quoted me a price on.)
BTW, I took a look around and the best price I found on the Tiagra 10-spd right shifter was $98 delivered (typically more around $105, on ebay anyway). But i couldn't be sure if it was the latest variant, or not. Any reason I should try to cancel the 105 unit, and grab the Tiagra ?

Last edited by Brocephus; 06-26-19 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 06-26-19, 09:18 AM
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No. New 10-speed tiagra doesn't work with 5700 105.

Source: I tried that.
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Old 06-26-19, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
No. New 10-speed tiagra doesn't work with 5700 105.

Source: I tried that.
You're right. Good call. My bad. Googled this:

"Shimano’s Tiagra 4700 10-speed brake/shifter is not compatible with any of its 10-speed rear derailleurs other than Tiagra 4700. That’s because this lever uses a different amount of cable pull to Shimano’s other 10-speed levers, including Tiagra 4600. Tiagra 4700 remains compatible with any Shimano/SRAM 10-speed chain and cassette."

I'm glad that @Brocephus went with the 10-speed 105 replacement.
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Old 06-26-19, 09:36 AM
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WHEW !! Well, I feel better now, though also a little disappointed, because I already had that $16 savings spent !!!
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