What's up w Hollowtech spindle -- slides laterally freely???
04-14-20, 06:59 PM
#26
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I don't understand how spacers add friction. Could you explain how you came to this conclusion? How does it happen if the spacer is moving at the same rotational speed as the crank arm and bearing cap if placed between crank and cap? If placed between cup and shell then it's not moving at all.
You still haven't explained how you are assembling/disassembling the crank, only making vague generalizations. So my best guess is that you have installed it incorrectly.
You still haven't explained how you are assembling/disassembling the crank, only making vague generalizations. So my best guess is that you have installed it incorrectly.
04-14-20, 07:30 PM
#27
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I don't think you understand where the spacer should be located. The function of the spacer is to effectively increase the width of the bottom bracket cups, and is installed between the outboard bearing cup and bb shell. This increases the width of the bottom bracket, taking up the slack of the excess spindle length on the crank, allowing for proper preload when installing the non-drive side crank arm.
The spacer does not go outside the bearing cup, sandwiched between the cup and crank arm.
I have included a picture of one of my bikes with a Deore crankset and similar BB assembly. The black spacer between the bearing cup and bb shell (non-drive side, in this case) is where any added spacers would be placed.
The spacer does not go outside the bearing cup, sandwiched between the cup and crank arm.
I have included a picture of one of my bikes with a Deore crankset and similar BB assembly. The black spacer between the bearing cup and bb shell (non-drive side, in this case) is where any added spacers would be placed.
04-14-20, 08:02 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
Oh, I get it now. Well..... my complaint still stands, doesn't it. If the spindle isn't fixed in position laterally it can be moved left or right to apply pressure onto whatever surface it might be pressed into, creating friction. And being a bad idea.
04-14-20, 08:42 PM
#29
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I watched the video. I didn't know the cap pushes the arm on further. I dont have a cap wrench. I'm cranking down using scissors held in pliers. It seems to tighten with a fair bit of force and not go any further. i don't think i'm missing out by not using the right wrench..
.
.
04-14-20, 09:05 PM
#30
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.....but the crank arm is being pressed against the rotating bearing surface. This is how that type of bottom bracket is designed. Have you looked at how these are put together? I dont understand how you expect to adjust the preload correctly without the crank arm pressing against into the side of the bottom bracket as it is designed. If you leave it loose like you have (or bottomed out on the spindle due to lack of spacers) then it will have play side to side like you describe.
04-15-20, 06:34 AM
#31
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The preload on those cranks is little more than finger tight. If you snug it down and the spindle is moving, you probably have another issue. It sounds like you have an issue with the bottom bracket, not the cranks. Would help to know what kind of frame that is, but if there is movement in the bottom bracket, something is fundamentally wrong.
There's an ever so slight chance that I just don't appreciate the genius of the design. : )
To have both driveside and leftside be snug against the BB, it seems I'd need 1/4" spacer on both sides or 1/2" on one side. I'd think my shell is standard width and the spindle is standard length. ??
04-15-20, 08:47 AM
#32
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Frame is Giant TCR 2004. Ultegra cranks.
There's an ever so slight chance that I just don't appreciate the genius of the design. : )
To have both driveside and leftside be snug against the BB, it seems I'd need 1/4" spacer on both sides or 1/2" on one side. I'd think my shell is standard width and the spindle is standard length. ??
There's an ever so slight chance that I just don't appreciate the genius of the design. : )
To have both driveside and leftside be snug against the BB, it seems I'd need 1/4" spacer on both sides or 1/2" on one side. I'd think my shell is standard width and the spindle is standard length. ??
I'd pull the cranks and look for issues on the drive side. Do the bearings look good? Those bottom brackets are relatively inexpensive. Just need the appropriate tool.
04-15-20, 08:50 AM
#33
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Frame is Giant TCR 2004. Ultegra cranks.
There's an ever so slight chance that I just don't appreciate the genius of the design. : )
To have both driveside and leftside be snug against the BB, it seems I'd need 1/4" spacer on both sides or 1/2" on one side. I'd think my shell is standard width and the spindle is standard length. ??
There's an ever so slight chance that I just don't appreciate the genius of the design. : )
To have both driveside and leftside be snug against the BB, it seems I'd need 1/4" spacer on both sides or 1/2" on one side. I'd think my shell is standard width and the spindle is standard length. ??
04-15-20, 09:02 AM
#34
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Unfortunately the OP hasn't stated the crank model for some reason. The FC-6603 only uses a 3mm & 6,5mm spacer and he's stating 1/2" or 13mm
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/EV/FC-6603
04-15-20, 04:56 PM
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He still hasn't said anything about exactly how he is assembling or disassembling it. I am guessing that a likely cause is that he's just not loosening the clamping bolts before tightening the compression bolt, and is complaining about the spindle having slack because he hasn't installed correctly.
04-15-20, 07:32 PM
#36
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i didnt tighten the clamp bolts until after snugging up the preload.
WAIT! It's a triple crank! Is that the problem? Do they have longer spindles? And only fit on certain BB shells? That's nuts. So my 2004 Giant TCR hates a triple?
I can actually just push the crank back and forth. The spindle seems too long. Cool -- a part that requires a DIFFERENT FRAME. ?? Hopefully I can get some spacers. Jeez.
I forgot that it was a triple crank. It had 175's which I hated. I found some 172.5 that I like -- but they're a triple. I just took off the inner cog, didn't need it.
In the photo I've shoved the drive-side over so the max excess is showing...
Hmmm... Maybe I could hacksaw the spindle shorter? Is the spindle threaded inside for the preload cap? If so, I wonder if the threading runs further in than it needs to... to let me cut off some of the spindle...
WAIT! It's a triple crank! Is that the problem? Do they have longer spindles? And only fit on certain BB shells? That's nuts. So my 2004 Giant TCR hates a triple?
I can actually just push the crank back and forth. The spindle seems too long. Cool -- a part that requires a DIFFERENT FRAME. ?? Hopefully I can get some spacers. Jeez.
I forgot that it was a triple crank. It had 175's which I hated. I found some 172.5 that I like -- but they're a triple. I just took off the inner cog, didn't need it.
In the photo I've shoved the drive-side over so the max excess is showing...
Hmmm... Maybe I could hacksaw the spindle shorter? Is the spindle threaded inside for the preload cap? If so, I wonder if the threading runs further in than it needs to... to let me cut off some of the spindle...
Last edited by JeffOYB; 04-15-20 at 07:53 PM.
04-15-20, 08:07 PM
#38
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Thread Starter
Yeah I snugged the preload before dropping the little gate and tightening the clamp-bolts. Here's a pic of the preload bolt. Is it supposed to stand a bit proud from the surface like that? On my other DA crank the preload seems to recess fully into the arm.
04-15-20, 08:10 PM
#39
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i didnt tighten the clamp bolts until after snugging up the preload.
WAIT! It's a triple crank! Is that the problem? Do they have longer spindles? And only fit on certain BB shells? That's nuts. So my 2004 Giant TCR hates a triple?
I can actually just push the crank back and forth. The spindle seems too long. Cool -- a part that requires a DIFFERENT FRAME. ?? Hopefully I can get some spacers. Jeez.
I forgot that it was a triple crank. It had 175's which I hated. I found some 172.5 that I like -- but they're a triple. I just took off the inner cog, didn't need it.
In the photo I've shoved the drive-side over so the max excess is showing...
Hmmm... Maybe I could hacksaw the spindle shorter? Is the spindle threaded inside for the preload cap? If so, I wonder if the threading runs further in than it needs to... to let me cut off some of the spindle...
WAIT! It's a triple crank! Is that the problem? Do they have longer spindles? And only fit on certain BB shells? That's nuts. So my 2004 Giant TCR hates a triple?
I can actually just push the crank back and forth. The spindle seems too long. Cool -- a part that requires a DIFFERENT FRAME. ?? Hopefully I can get some spacers. Jeez.
I forgot that it was a triple crank. It had 175's which I hated. I found some 172.5 that I like -- but they're a triple. I just took off the inner cog, didn't need it.
In the photo I've shoved the drive-side over so the max excess is showing...
Hmmm... Maybe I could hacksaw the spindle shorter? Is the spindle threaded inside for the preload cap? If so, I wonder if the threading runs further in than it needs to... to let me cut off some of the spindle...
04-16-20, 07:02 AM
#40
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i didnt tighten the clamp bolts until after snugging up the preload.
WAIT! It's a triple crank! Is that the problem? Do they have longer spindles? And only fit on certain BB shells? That's nuts. So my 2004 Giant TCR hates a triple
.Hmmm... Maybe I could hacksaw the spindle shorter? Is the spindle threaded inside for the preload cap? If so, I wonder if the threading runs further in than it needs to... to let me cut off some of the spindle...
WAIT! It's a triple crank! Is that the problem? Do they have longer spindles? And only fit on certain BB shells? That's nuts. So my 2004 Giant TCR hates a triple
.Hmmm... Maybe I could hacksaw the spindle shorter? Is the spindle threaded inside for the preload cap? If so, I wonder if the threading runs further in than it needs to... to let me cut off some of the spindle...
DO NOT hacksaw the spindle shorter, you'll remove some of the splines and preload internal threading. Bad Idea
You WILL NEED the #10 & #16 spacers shown in the parts diagram whether you think the friction will rob you of output or not.
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-FC-6603-2366E.pdf
04-16-20, 07:35 AM
#41
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Thanks. Any chance such spacers are items that my LBS is likely to have? I see jillions of Hollowtech 2 items. No hits on HT 1
04-16-20, 07:43 AM
#42
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Read the back of the crank arm for a model #. Likely that's a FC-6603. That crank is HT II, HT I did not have an integral spindle, just hollow arms that went on a square taper or Octalink BB.
04-16-20, 08:05 AM
#43
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Oh yeah! Whups. I'm working on projects on 2 bikes right now. One HT1 and the other HT2.
04-16-20, 04:31 PM
#44
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You've already got your answer regarding your wider triple crank requiring spacers, but this should be replied to. The Shimano HT II bottom brackets use angular contact bearings, and snugging up the preload adjuster cap is actually required in order for the bearings to provide the support they provide and run well. One snugs the preload just enough to eliminate play, and no more. This is how these angular contact bearings work. With the spacers installed and the preload properly snugged, there will be no side-to-side play, the bearings will be in proper contact between the races and the balls, war will cease, cancer will be cured, and nobody will want for food or shelter.
