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Sick of Explaining Chain Twist

Old 04-20-20, 12:08 PM
  #1  
Crossthreaded88
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Sick of Explaining Chain Twist

I don't know about everyone else but if I never have to explain chain twist or cross chaining that will be just fine. I'm sick of telling noobs that a bike does not shift like a car. Especially with the new 30 and 33 speeds people seem to have a hard time getting it through their heads that some gears are redundant and unusable.Even 21 speeds have some gear combos that are ill advised to use like 7th gear or 15th gear. The concept is easy enough to explain and even demonstrate but I think they feel cheated if they can't ride in every gear the bike has. I agree that the derailleur system of shifting has it's limitations but until they come up with something better (IGH) I guess I will have to repeat myself again and again why this is a problem with the design not the bike itself. Shift in groups I say, but the concept is tough for some to process. Anyway I feel better getting off my chest.
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Old 04-20-20, 12:37 PM
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What is chain twist? Neer heard this term before.
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Old 04-20-20, 12:46 PM
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Old 04-20-20, 12:47 PM
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Well cyclist have been talking such stuff for longer than many here have been alive. It's not the big deal that many want to make of it.

Don't let it bother you if they don't choose the same perspective. We all have things that matter more and less to us that add to why we may choose to get concerned or not.
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Old 04-20-20, 01:22 PM
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I don't really consider gearing efficiency to be intuitive, especially when there are so many more gears available nowadays. Also, big name bike manufacturers using available cassettes to meet a price point rather than maximizing useful gearing is bound to lead to redundancies, and that's kind of complex to grasp if you don't spend a lot of time thinking about production for various riding types. If you don't want to explain, nobody's forcing you. It's kind of interesting specialized knowledge, though, isn't it?
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Old 04-20-20, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Crossthreaded88 View Post
... I agree that the derailleur system of shifting has it's limitations but until they come up with something better (IGH) I guess I will have to repeat myself again and again why this is a problem with the design not the bike itself.
One day they'll have that dang fangled IGH thing figured out. I hear Sturmey Archer is getting close.
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Old 04-20-20, 01:46 PM
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Not everyone is eager for an explanation



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Old 04-20-20, 02:59 PM
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Yeah, Iím waiting for that 11-34 24 speed IGH. Canít get any more efficient than that.

John
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Old 04-20-20, 03:56 PM
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You're probably making it way too hard.
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Old 04-20-20, 04:06 PM
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I won't get concerned about others' gear choices until I hear that the chains, cogs and chainrings I use are becoming scarce. Until then it is $$s going between that cross-chainer, SRAM, Sugino, Shmano and their stockholders. All OK by me.

As an experienced rider, I cross-chain intentionally for certain situations. Long climbs with short level sections. Small-small. Many years ago, the state championships. Quietly went large-large coming around the final corner (I was on a straight block, 54-17. Way, way over geared!) So I could again do a quiet shift to the 15, surprise everybody and go long. It worked.

Ben
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Old 04-20-20, 08:13 PM
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I prefer using my chain twisted and crossed up. Its an acquired taste.
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Old 04-20-20, 08:35 PM
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This is hard to explain...


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Old 04-20-20, 08:35 PM
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Isn't a twisted chain different? I usually throw out twisted chains and don't really know how people do that. Everyone learns starting somewhere and gear ratios aren't intuitive, nor is the idea that you can't use all the gears. Are you working in a shop and complaining about it? It is just what goes along with the paycheck; if now then why answer? I used to hate some of the really stupid questions while working as a computer consultant at a university but I hated the elitist, know-it-all attitude of the other consultants more. All of whom quickly learned not to ask, "how do they not know this?" or any question along those lines. My usual answer was, cause while you were learning this they were busy having a life, i'd substitute getting laid for having a life if it was a more complicated answer to the student's question. Outside those who really spend their time riding and getting to know their bikes most people barely know how to shift their bikes and its just a toy to play with let alone know there's gears they shouldn't use.
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Old 04-20-20, 08:42 PM
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Fortunately for that guy in the general discussion forum today, there are plenty of people who want to go on and on about it
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Old 04-21-20, 01:17 AM
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Why do you feel compelled to explain things? Go ride a bicycle and enjoy yourself.
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Old 04-21-20, 01:29 AM
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For what its worth the bike industry has realized people love cross chaining, so most current high end 2x setups are designed to cross chain pretty well. In funny contrast, DI2 won't allow some small/small combinations (depending on configuration). There is a drop in efficiency and a bit more wear, but you certainly can cross chain for short moments. I'm a pro mechanic and I'll admit I ride in my big/big on my road bike for short moments sometimes out of stoplights and occasionally when cresting a small grade reversal or something to avoid an awkwardly timed front shift. It's not a huge deal.
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Old 04-21-20, 02:30 AM
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could be time for a career chainge (sic)

gotta use that degree sooner or later
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Old 04-21-20, 04:58 AM
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If I were truly looking to avoid a particular subject, I wouldn't start a thread topic on it. On the bright side, you don't need to know very much technical information to ride a bicycle and enjoy it

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Old 04-21-20, 05:28 AM
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As a bike shop wrench I love chain twist it cross chaining!! Wears out the drivetrain and creates more business!!!
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Old 04-21-20, 09:36 AM
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1x

A little surprised to see no one has mentioned telling them 1x to be the solution. So often has a customer with a mountain bike (2x10) or other come in ready to pay for a 1x conversion whether that is just cassette chainrings chain and maybe rd or shooting straight to entry level eagle/11s.
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Old 04-21-20, 09:55 AM
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Look at it as an opportunity to "upgrade" the customer to electric shifting, which can be programmed to avoid cross chaining, or to a 1x system. That or point them to the internet where their are tens, if not hundreds of videos telling people how to shift. One thing I find works is to not ride behind other people and stare at their gearing chose;

Karl (my gearing works for me but probably not others)
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Old 04-21-20, 10:06 AM
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The problems with saying 1x in that thread, is that first it's already gone on long enough to make that tedious, and second the guy bought an FX1 with a screw-on freewheel hub and a riveted crankset and integrated shift and brake levers. By the time he got all the parts he needed he'd be replacing half the bike.
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Old 06-05-20, 09:21 PM
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Nice amount of varied answers. Wasn't ready for the haters. Just blowing off some steam I suppose. Yes I'm a wrench and my complaint arose from a customer who said I didn't fix his bike correctly because it made noise shifting from big to big. To those critical of the term "twist" when I included "cross" in my explanation are just nit pickers and probably ugly when born haha just a joke, mediator. Thanks for the understanding most of you had not a world ending dilemma just a little frustration after a day in the trenches.
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Old 06-05-20, 10:17 PM
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I have had chains that had the links twist left and right . I have worn out chins to the point of multiple breaks trying to get home. I just replaced the chain when they became unusable. What is the fuss. I currently ride a
Rohloff with a belt.
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Old 06-06-20, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Crossthreaded88 View Post
Nice amount of varied answers. Wasn't ready for the haters. Just blowing off some steam I suppose. Yes I'm a wrench and my complaint arose from a customer who said I didn't fix his bike correctly because it made noise shifting from big to big. To those critical of the term "twist" when I included "cross" in my explanation are just nit pickers and probably ugly when born haha just a joke, mediator. Thanks for the understanding most of you had not a world ending dilemma just a little frustration after a day in the trenches.
Ah, but chain twist and cross-chaining are two entirely different things. A twisted chain will most likely not shift properly or stay on the cog or chainring whilst a cross-chain will shift although it may be noisy in that cross-chained gear.

Cheers
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