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BB & crankset choice for new frame

Old 09-07-20, 08:48 AM
  #1  
Charliekeet
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BB & crankset choice for new frame

Ok, need some advice. TIA

My sonís aluminum Marin MTB cracked at the headtube, so thatís done and Iíve stripped everything off of it except the cranks and BB.
  1. Old bike had Shimano Deore LX cranks and BB, thatís Hollowtech i (not the external HT ii).
  2. The new bike will be this Specialized frame HERE (got one NOS, yay!). Google says it was meant to have a Hollowtech ii BB.
  3. I do not yet have the right puller for the cranks from the old frame (I have a Park CCP22, not the larger-footed 44 for these Octalink type cranks). Nor do I yet have a BB tool.

If you were me, would you buy the crank & BB tools and transfer over, use the older threaded internal style on the new frame (or would that even work)?
Or, if not, what more modern BB/crankset would you recommend (keeping in mind Iíd need to buy tools to do the install myself if possible to save money and time at the LBS)?
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Old 09-07-20, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Charliekeet View Post
Ok, need some advice. TIA

My sonís aluminum Marin MTB cracked at the headtube, so thatís done and Iíve stripped everything off of it except the cranks and BB.
  1. Old bike had Shimano Deore LX cranks and BB, thatís Hollowtech i (not the external HT ii).
  2. The new bike will be this Specialized frame HERE (got one NOS, yay!). Google says it was meant to have a Hollowtech ii BB.
  3. I do not yet have the right puller for the cranks from the old frame (I have a Park CCP22, not the larger-footed 44 for these Octalink type cranks). Nor do I yet have a BB tool.

If you were me, would you buy the crank & BB tools and transfer over, use the older threaded internal style on the new frame (or would that even work)?
Or, if not, what more modern BB/crankset would you recommend (keeping in mind Iíd need to buy tools to do the install myself if possible to save money and time at the LBS)?
1. Decent crankset worth keeping
2. That just means that the crank that came as specified used HT II. It also tells you it's standard English threaded BB shell probably 73mm width shell. Thre is no reason your HT I BB wont thread in unless your existing HT I is for a 68mm shell width. You could get a new HT I BB with the correct shell width and spindle length. Be aware there is a V1 and V2 of Octalink.
3. Octalink cranks removed with CP-22??
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Old 09-07-20, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
1. Decent crankset worth keeping
2. That just means that the crank that came as specified used HT II. It also tells you it's standard English threaded BB shell probably 73mm width shell. Thre is no reason your HT I BB wont thread in unless your existing HT I is for a 68mm shell width. You could get a new HT I BB with the correct shell width and spindle length. Be aware there is a V1 and V2 of Octalink.
3. Octalink cranks removed with CP-22??
Thx for the info. So maybe simplest thing is to try getting the cranks out with the socket trick, buy the BB tool and swap over BB and cranks to the new frame. I measured the edge of the old frameís BB cup to other edge of BB cup at exactly 73mm. (Was I supposed to measure the frame itself only?)

And if I canít get the cranks out, maybe I leave it all and go more modern (and eventually acquire the other crank tool).

Last edited by Charliekeet; 09-07-20 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 09-07-20, 04:52 PM
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You can make the older, smaller press-screw crank pullers work with HT1 (Octalink) or ISIS spindles by inserting a dime or similar size washer into the crank after the fixing bolt has been removed to cover the spindle hole and give the puller something to push against.

Shimano used to include a small steel mushroom-shaped plug (TL-FC15) with their replacement HT1 cranks for just that purpose. An older LBS might have one lying around.
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Old 09-07-20, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
You can make the older, smaller press-screw crank pullers work with HT1 (Octalink) or ISIS spindles by inserting a dime or similar size washer into the crank after the fixing bolt has been removed to cover the spindle hole and give the puller something to push against.

Shimano used to include a small steel mushroom-shaped plug (TL-FC15) with their replacement HT1 cranks for just that purpose. An older LBS might have one lying around.
Good to know. Iíll see if the folks at my LBS have one & will lend it when I go buy the BBT22 tool from them.

I also found that plug on Amazon for $9, which I refuse to do. Clearly I shouldíve just paid a few bucks more for the crank puller that does both!
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Old 09-07-20, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Charliekeet View Post
Thx for the info. So maybe simplest thing is to try getting the cranks out with the socket trick, buy the BB tool and swap over BB and cranks to the new frame. I measured the edge of the old frameís BB cup to other edge of BB cup at exactly 73mm. (Was I supposed to measure the frame itself only?)

And if I canít get the cranks out, maybe I leave it all and go more modern (and eventually acquire the other crank tool).
Yes I'd try the dimes/socket trick first and see if it works in your case. @ dimes is recommended.
You measure just the frame shell width.
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Old 09-07-20, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Yes I'd try the dimes/socket trick first and see if it works in your case. @ dimes is recommended.
You measure just the frame shell width.
Hmm, so maybe it is 68mm then. (No, I donít have calipers. )

Measured again, and just the actual Al frame, the bb shell, not anything sticking past the metal, with soft tape, regular metal tape measure, and then with a piece of cardboard, marked it, and here it is (pic) - appears to be right at 68 each time- was certainly less then 7cm.
(The mark farther to the right is just approx. where the bb cup goes out to.)

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Old 09-07-20, 08:37 PM
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EXisting 68mm, not a surprise. What is the width on the new frame? If it's 73mm you'll need a new BB for 73mm X whatever the required spindle length for the crank is.

That should have read "2" dimes, not @ dimes
$10 buys a cheap digital caliper "good enough"
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Old 09-07-20, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
EXisting 68mm, not a surprise. What is the width on the new frame? If it's 73mm you'll need a new BB for 73mm X whatever the required spindle length for the crank is.

That should have read "2" dimes, not @ dimes
$10 buys a cheap digital caliper "good enough"
New frame not in hand for a couple of days (And I cant find a definitive answer on the Spesh site or online catalog, so weíll see. But it sounds like I have to get a new 73mm BB, specifically a new HT i if I use the old cranks.
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Old 09-08-20, 05:21 PM
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Got the cranks off no problem despite only having the ccp22 puller. 10mm socket was handy and worked perfectly. Now I gotta make sure if I need a 73mm that I can locate a 1st-gen Octalink (Hollowtech I) bottom bracket.
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Old 09-08-20, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Charliekeet View Post
Got the cranks off no problem despite only having the ccp22 puller. 10mm socket was handy and worked perfectly. Now I gotta make sure if I need a 73mm that I can locate a 1st-gen Octalink (Hollowtech I) bottom bracket.
Just as importantly know which version of octatlink you have.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._V1_and_V2.jpg
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Old 09-08-20, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Just as importantly know which version of octatlink you have.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._V1_and_V2.jpg
Right, I got it- theyíre original Octalink V2, based on that picture and also the measurement of the splines on mine, below- theyíre just under 3/8Ē, so that would be the 9mm as shown in this diagram- https://www.modernbike.com/shimano-o...ottom-brackets

and my spindle length came out to 113mm, so if I need that and at a 73 shell width, would mean I need
THIS BB - out of stock there, but Iíll look around online & locally.

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Old 09-08-20, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Charliekeet View Post
Right, I got it- theyíre original Octalink V2, based on that picture and also the measurement of the splines on mine, below- theyíre just under 3/8Ē, so that would be the 9mm as shown in this diagram- https://www.modernbike.com/shimano-o...ottom-brackets

and my spindle length came out to 113mm, so if I need that and at a 73 shell width, would mean I need
THIS BB - out of stock there, but Iíll look around online & locally.
Just realized Iíll need a longer spindle now than I had with the 68 shell, right? If that was 113, this would need to be 73/118...
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Old 09-09-20, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Charliekeet View Post
Just realized Iíll need a longer spindle now than I had with the 68 shell, right? If that was 113, this would need to be 73/118...
Shouldn't. Of course that's assume the BB in there was correct for the crank. BB length is based on the crank not the bike.
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Old 09-09-20, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Shouldn't. Of course that's assume the BB in there was correct for the crank. BB length is based on the crank not the bike.
Well, that has cleared up my head completely - thank you for putting it that way, dedhed !
And indeed, borne out by info in Sheldon Brown's database:

Deore LX M571 Spiderless **113-118** V2 Spline 9-speed 2000-04
...
Shell width in millimeters:

68 for standard ISO/British
70 for Italian
73 for oversized ISO/British.
This dimension has to do with what kind of frame the bottom bracket fits, and has nothing to do with the crank.
...
Length: overall spindle length in millimeters. This will determine the chainline and various clearance dimensions.

**Shimano sometimes specs two different lengths for the same crankset. This usually relates to the diameter of the seat tube.
The shorter dimension is normally preferred, but bikes with fat seat tubes may require the longer size to accommodate the swing of the front derailer.
**
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Old 09-09-20, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Charliekeet View Post
Well, that has cleared up my head completely - thank you for putting it that way, dedhed !
And indeed, borne out by info in Sheldon Brown's database:
It's about correct (or close enough) chainline the crank & drive train are designed for, as well as chain ring clearance on the frame. All are based off the center line of the bike not the edge.
That's not to say that there may not be issues due to a crank that was designed "back in the day" for the frames and typical drive trains of the day, being used in a new frame design based on new concepts like 1 X 11, wider rear spacing etc.
Either way, using the BB length spec for the crank is usually a good starting point, and "normally" works out just fine.

You've also seen and digested the disclaimer related to seat tube diameter and FD swing.

Last edited by dedhed; 09-09-20 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 09-10-20, 07:01 PM
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Ok, so with new frame (and some calipers) in hand, Iíve learned:

The new frame has the same bb shell width as the old frame: 68mm

But, the old frame seat tube: 31.8
NEW frame: 34.9.

So I canít use my current clamp Deore front derailleur, and will need to get a new one (Or rethink what Iím running up front).
And I may need to use a new 118 spindle length bb in lieu of the used 113 one.
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