Clean Freehub Slipping - Can't Figure It Out
11-01-20, 07:25 AM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Clean Freehub Slipping - Can't Figure It Out
Hi all,
So I just upgraded my complete drive train to 11 speed DA. Almost new condition and bought a new 11 speed DA chain. Was running Centaur 10 speed. I will probably soon upgrade the wheelset also but for now I have an 11 speed Chorus cassette on there which should work fine.
Anyway I did a complete overhaul on the bike before putting everything together. I took the old freehub off which had never given me any trouble but had seen a few winter's worth of use so thought it deserved a little tlc. It is a Campagnolo type 9/10/11 speed from about 2012 and has the older thin axle design. Took out the freehub bearings, cleaned and regreased them. They spin beautifully with little signs of wear. Took out the pawls and spring and cleaned them up. Applied a tiny amount of light oil. The pawls spring in and out as they should.
Put everything back together. Feels rock solid with no discernible play. Went for a short ride and clunk clunk at the top of the stroke under moderate load, like the chain is slipping.
So I switched an 8 speed wheel in there and problem dissappeared. So I think, not the crankset, not the RD and probably not the chain.
Put the problem wheelset back on but fitted a 10 speed cassette on it. Problem still there.
So it seems to be the freehub. The pawl spring is not deformed and the pawls engage fine under light load.
There are no cracks in the freehub. The splined unit in the hub also looks fine and I can't get it to spin independently of the hub.
I can only think that the spring has been weakened a bit and the pawls are not travelling enough and not fully engaging in the splines. Or the tips of the pawls are rounded a bit and are slipping.
I would try another pawl spring and even new pawls immediately if I could pick some up in my LBS but they don't stock them So before I place an online order I just want to check if I have missed anything.
Any ideas?
So I just upgraded my complete drive train to 11 speed DA. Almost new condition and bought a new 11 speed DA chain. Was running Centaur 10 speed. I will probably soon upgrade the wheelset also but for now I have an 11 speed Chorus cassette on there which should work fine.
Anyway I did a complete overhaul on the bike before putting everything together. I took the old freehub off which had never given me any trouble but had seen a few winter's worth of use so thought it deserved a little tlc. It is a Campagnolo type 9/10/11 speed from about 2012 and has the older thin axle design. Took out the freehub bearings, cleaned and regreased them. They spin beautifully with little signs of wear. Took out the pawls and spring and cleaned them up. Applied a tiny amount of light oil. The pawls spring in and out as they should.
Put everything back together. Feels rock solid with no discernible play. Went for a short ride and clunk clunk at the top of the stroke under moderate load, like the chain is slipping.
So I switched an 8 speed wheel in there and problem dissappeared. So I think, not the crankset, not the RD and probably not the chain.
Put the problem wheelset back on but fitted a 10 speed cassette on it. Problem still there.
So it seems to be the freehub. The pawl spring is not deformed and the pawls engage fine under light load.
There are no cracks in the freehub. The splined unit in the hub also looks fine and I can't get it to spin independently of the hub.
I can only think that the spring has been weakened a bit and the pawls are not travelling enough and not fully engaging in the splines. Or the tips of the pawls are rounded a bit and are slipping.
I would try another pawl spring and even new pawls immediately if I could pick some up in my LBS but they don't stock them So before I place an online order I just want to check if I have missed anything.
Any ideas?
Last edited by old_dreams; 11-01-20 at 07:51 AM.
11-01-20, 03:04 PM
#2
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There are a few assumptions made in your assessing the problem. The skipping could be from mismatched cassette (wear or indexing not spot on) and der/shifter as example. Campy and Shimano will never say their 11 speed stuff is cross compatible and with the very narrow tolerances the slight cog spacing differences can reduce this even more. The 8 speed wheel you tried... how did you deal with the cog spacing difference? Not shift and set it up in one cog only? Did you repeat this restriction with the 11 speed wheel too?
It could be slipping pawls but we see this a lot less often then what I read here would suggest be the case. Are the current wheels worth keeping around for a few seasons more? If so and if a Shimano cassette compatible freehub body was available I might suggest going that route. Any pawl issue would be moot and you could run a true Shimano spec cassette. Andy
It could be slipping pawls but we see this a lot less often then what I read here would suggest be the case. Are the current wheels worth keeping around for a few seasons more? If so and if a Shimano cassette compatible freehub body was available I might suggest going that route. Any pawl issue would be moot and you could run a true Shimano spec cassette. Andy
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AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
11-01-20, 03:33 PM
#3
Full Member
Thread Starter
The indexing is spot on, super smooth shifting. Yes on the 8 speed I just set it on one cog and didn't shift. I left the RD in the same position as I was using on the 11 speed.
You're correct in that I'm surely making assumptions. Part of reaching out was to point that out to me so thanks.
I've been at this on and off for 3 days and completely forgot a very important point obvious from day 1. I don't get the problem in the first 3 gears. I'll test this under high torque when this storm outside blows over. So quite possibly not a pawl problem at all. Maybe the chain is catching in the problem gears. That was what I thought when it first happened but when I look down I don't see any sign of that happening. And I checked the shifting is good. When I rotate the crankset in reverse it is super smooth in all gears.
I purchased the chorus cassette 2nd hand but it looks in really good condition. I've read several accounts of people successfully using campy cassettes with shimano 11 speed systems so was hoping that would be the case for me too but maybe not.
Accounts like this:
https://www.velonews.com/gear/drivet...n-plain-sight/
and this
https://fitwerx.com/campagnolo-shima...-compatiblity/
I tried to eliminate the possibility of the chain catching by playing around with the 11 speed cassette. I switched sprocket 10 into position 7 to give sprocket 6 freedom on one of it's faces. This made no difference. I may try other vairations of this if I can but bigger sprockets are fused together making this tricky.
You're correct in that I'm surely making assumptions. Part of reaching out was to point that out to me so thanks.
I've been at this on and off for 3 days and completely forgot a very important point obvious from day 1. I don't get the problem in the first 3 gears. I'll test this under high torque when this storm outside blows over. So quite possibly not a pawl problem at all. Maybe the chain is catching in the problem gears. That was what I thought when it first happened but when I look down I don't see any sign of that happening. And I checked the shifting is good. When I rotate the crankset in reverse it is super smooth in all gears.
I purchased the chorus cassette 2nd hand but it looks in really good condition. I've read several accounts of people successfully using campy cassettes with shimano 11 speed systems so was hoping that would be the case for me too but maybe not.
Accounts like this:
https://www.velonews.com/gear/drivet...n-plain-sight/
and this
https://fitwerx.com/campagnolo-shima...-compatiblity/
I tried to eliminate the possibility of the chain catching by playing around with the 11 speed cassette. I switched sprocket 10 into position 7 to give sprocket 6 freedom on one of it's faces. This made no difference. I may try other vairations of this if I can but bigger sprockets are fused together making this tricky.
Last edited by old_dreams; 11-01-20 at 03:51 PM.
11-02-20, 05:15 AM
#4
Full Member
Thread Starter
Finally I think it's figured out. Thanks Andrew. This Campagnolo cassette is not compatible on my setup with DA 11 speed chain.
The biggest 6 sprockets are in two groups of three. 17-19-21 and 23-26-29. I switched the smaller group to the inside. Bingo, no slipping in any of the sprockets from positions 4 to 11. Tried the 21T which is now in position 1 and it slips.
That's a relief.
The biggest 6 sprockets are in two groups of three. 17-19-21 and 23-26-29. I switched the smaller group to the inside. Bingo, no slipping in any of the sprockets from positions 4 to 11. Tried the 21T which is now in position 1 and it slips.
That's a relief.
Last edited by old_dreams; 11-02-20 at 05:52 AM.
11-15-20, 12:54 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Just updating this to clarify something. The issue was not compatibility. There are numerous accounts of people using Campy 11 speed cassettes with Shimano 11 speed and vice versa. I got my hands on another 11 speed Campy cassette and it worked perfectly.
The issue was worn sprockets on 17-19-21 and also on 15T.
The wear was not that obvious to the eye but apparent when compared to a new sprocket.
The issue was worn sprockets on 17-19-21 and also on 15T.
The wear was not that obvious to the eye but apparent when compared to a new sprocket.
