Stormy85

Hi there

My front Shimano RS-11 wheel has some broken spokes and I would like to replace them. I have managed to source the original replacement spokes (282mm) yet since I dont have a specific Shimano nipple key I was thinking of replacing the nipples with new DT Swiss nipples. The nipples are cheaper than buying the specific key.
My issue is that the nipples are very different. The Shimano nipples look like they are 16mm yet since DT Swiss nipples have different threads I was unsure which to get. I tried reconstructing the wheel in the DT Swiss Spoke calculator to adjust for the nipple length but having measured the ERD (593mm) and the Straight-Pull Hub dimensions (Pitch: 41/ Flange: 38.5) its showing me that the correct spoke length should be 280mm. I dont think Shimano did a mistake so I am guessing my measurements are a little off but I assume that 12mm would work since the longer nipples would shorten the spoke length even further.
Does that make sense?

Andrew R Stewart 

Many Shimano spokes are larger in diameter then the usual 2mm or 1.8mm. Spoke length is not nipple dependent, so a longer or shorter nipple will not mean a change to the spoke length. One still wants the spoke end to be just into the nipple head, not mid way through the nipple.

I seriously doubt Shimano made a mistake on spoke or nipple lengths. If so then that's the first time I've heard of this. Shimano's missteps tend to be more marketing or the "build a better mouse trap but it turned out the improvement wasn't wanted by the purchasing public" type of thing. They don't make many engineering of manufacturing mistakes, if any (excepting the odd factory error that any manufactured product can suffer from).

BTW this spoke/nipple spec/replacement ease is one factor that drives the wheels offered by the shop that I work in. If our after many miles of use servicing is easy then our customers will have a good time with the stuff we sell. If we can't (or can but at a too great cost) service a wheel set we sold that customer will likely look elsewhere for the next wheels/bike/other they next want to buy. Somewhat selfish on our part to want to have an easier time later. Andy

Stormy85

Hi Andrew

Thanks for your reply. The spokes are 2.0mm so they do work with DT Swiss nipples. However, the Shimano nipple does seem to affect the length of the spoke. I had a look at the original spoke placement within the nipple and the spoke sits flush, perhaps even a bit protruding.

Now, when compared to the DT swiss nippel and the base of the nipple being equally seated in the rim and the spoke being flush with the nippel there is a 3mm difference in spoke length which would correspond with the measurements calculated with the DT Swiss spoke length calculator (278,7mm). The silver nippel is the DT Swiss.


Am I missing something or is the replacement of nipples perhaps not even possible without using the original Shimano ones?

Crankycrank

I believe you would want the longer nipples which DT also sells just to ensure you have enough of the threads engaged. DT STANDARD | DT Swiss Scroll down to the "model finder" at the bottom of the page to make it easy. The DT nipple you have in the picture appears to be a 12mm long piece. If you're worried about the spoke protruding farther out of the DT nipple it's not a concern as it just has a shorter head. If you had replaced the spokes with longer ones which protruded into the wheel well then that would be a problem but your current spokes are fine.

Stormy85

hi crankycrank
I don't think a longer nipple will change my problem. The nipple, wether 12/14/16mm will sit at the same position within the rim. The 16mm would be longer but it doesn't change the position of the nipple in the rim thus the spoke would still protrude farther out of the DT nipple.
My initial picture wasn't quite clear so I tried a new one: This time I put the spokes (282mm as per Shimano) at the same height (makes more sense and I should have done this before). In theory, the spoke would have to protrude 3mm in order to have the same fitment as with the Shimano nipples which however is not even possible because the spoke would bottom out before that. I haven't build many rims but as far as I know that's not want you want.
In terms of a 16mm nipple this would only make the situation worse as the spoke would bottom out even earlier due to the longer thread.

I guess Shimano did this on purpose. I might have to get a Shimano nipple key after all.
Out of curiosity I might cut open the shimano nippel to see how the threads engage.

Crankycrank

Ah, OK. In that case it would seem to me that just getting the proper spoke wrench would be the best option and just re-use the old nipples plus you'll have the proper tool for the other spokes. Measure what size wrench you need and do a general search for other wrench options and you may find something decent for not too many $$. Just noticed Shimano PRO wrench's aren't any more expensive than others and should have the proper size. Your LBS can probably get them if you don't want to pay the extra for shipping. Shimano Pro Wheel Spoke Wrench 4Sizes (bicyclehero.com)