Strange frame alignment problem
 

Hi,

I have strange alignment problem with my old Nishiki road bike. I have done cold setting for the frame to 130 mm spacing. After that I aligned the dropouts.
The rear wheel is true and centered, but when I put it on the bike it sits closer to left side chainstay. Offset is approx. 3 mm. The clearance gets a bit too small with 28 mm tyre.

Strange part is that there is nothing wrong with the frame alignment. I checked it first with the string method and then again with DIY alignment tool.
Both times the result was same: the rear triangle alignment is OK.

I also measured lengths of the chainstays and those were same. There is no visible damage on the frame.

I could move the rim 1.5 mm to right to "fix" the problem, but I would like to hear first if there is anything else I could try.

Edit: The rear axle was to blame after all.

You could try a different wheel, confirm that it's not the frame.

Flip the wheel. Results the same?

Yeah, the result is the same.

When you measure the CS are you measuring to the dropout? Horizontal vertical DO?

Have you checked the alignment with the wheel installed? As you tighten the wheel you might be able to see how the wheel is pulling the frame out of alignment.

Troubleshooting an Off-Centered Rear Wheel on a Road Bike: Possible Causes and Soluti
 

It sounds like you have already done a thorough job checking the frame alignment and dropouts, which rules out some common causes of this issue. Here are a few other things you can check:

• Check the dish of the wheel: Make sure that the wheel is properly dished, meaning that the rim is centered between the hub locknuts. If the wheel is not properly dished, it can cause it to sit off-center in the frame.
• Check the axle spacers: Make sure that the spacers on the axle are symmetrical and that the wheel is centered between them. If one spacer is thicker than the other, it can cause the wheel to sit off-center.
• Check the derailleur hanger alignment: If the derailleur hanger is bent or misaligned, it can cause the derailleur to pull the wheel off-center.
• Check the frame alignment in relation to the seat tube: Even though the rear triangle may be aligned, the seat tube can still be off-center. This can cause the wheel to sit off-center in the frame.
• Check the dropout alignment again: It's possible that the dropouts were not perfectly aligned when you checked them the first time. You may want to double-check them using a different method or tool.

If none of these checks reveal the cause of the problem, moving the rim slightly to the right may be your best option. Just make sure that the wheel is still properly dished and that the tire has enough clearance.

Spacers are dish, dish is spacers. Either the wheel is dished or it is not.

Did you observe that the frame was actually aligned before you spread it? Presumable that was with a different wheel, and that wheel might not have had perfect dish, making up for dropouts that may not have been perfect.

If the frame is straight and the dropouts aligned, the thing to do to align a dished wheel is to remove a tiny bit of dropout material with a round file. Less than half a millimeter total would shift the wheel 3mm.

Check the seatube alignment to the bb driveside, then downtube to the same bb face, then the headtube to the seatube. The string test only tells you something is out it won't be accurate for the rear needs unless the front is in check.

Quite the dilemma since the offset is the same with the "perfectly dished" wheel installed either way. I would guess (even though you checked) that the dropouts were "moved" relative to each other when you spread the frame.

Sounds like the wheel isn't dished correctly if the dropout spacing was done correctly and the slots are lined up correctly. Or you just got a spacer on the wrong side of the hub.

Tested this when things got strange and the alignment was same

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9e628bd88c.png
:twitchy:

It seems to me that if you get the same amount of offset from midline in the same direction when the wheel is flipped, the wheel is not the culprit. That would leave frame and dropout alignment. Sometimes fresh eyes will see the problem when I don't. A competent friend or professional mechanic?

Funny, I had the same suspicion as you.

I'm hoping they'll institute a rapid sanction before this kind of stuff takes root. :crash:

Almost. The suggestion that the der hanger can cause a wheel to shift is not the best way of saying if the dropouts are not parallel to each other AND also not parallel to the centerline off the bike (this part is rarely mentioned) that the wheel can shift on tightening. Technically the hanger is not the axle slot.

I've seen many bikes that when the wheel is tightened in place it wants to "walk" or move slightly within the drop out. I have found this to be far more likely with axle nutted wheels (the axle sometimes wants to turn with the nut allowing that "walking" to happen).

Having read this thread I would want to see the bike and wheel before making any claims of what's wrong. Andy

^^^^To clarify, I wasn't endorsing any of this, just pointing out it was AI generated mush. As for the OP, he's certain it's not the frame and certain it's not the wheel. I agree it's strange.:rolleyes:

like the Derailleur will pull the wheel off center when installed.... DUMB computer... No Voltage! click.

if they learn to defend their power sources, we are in big trouble...... see: Star Trek: The ultimate computer

is the frame in question Steel or Aluminum?

i just reset a Tange Champion steel frame and that sucker is tough to move..

If your frame is steel. you may have bent OTHER tubes and twisted the frame as you reset it.

that twist may have left the seat tube "centered" in the middle, but out of true at the top and bottom......... a definite possibility.

Kerri R- Don't know where you are but you can see my city. if you're close I can help you figure this out. Andy

"I'm sorry, Dave... I can't let you do that." :eek:

HAL 9000 was weak-willed and compassionate compared to Harlan Ellison's Allied Mastercomputer (AKA "AM").

:thumb:

Are you absolutely sure the wheel OLD matches your 130mm frame spacing? If the OLD is less than 130 (say 126 mm) the stays would be pulled in when the wheel was secured, but not maybe not equally. Given that the dropouts and frame are aligned well, the wheel is true and properly dished, and the stay lengths are equal, I can think of no other reason for your issue.

You're jumping around a bit. By definition a dished wheel means different spacing on the right and left. And, so ordinarily also different spacers. Done to compensate for the hub design and the cassette or freewheel.

Just make sure the wheel is properly dished.

[MENTION=493423]Karri_R[/MENTION] apparently did the flip the wheel backward test, and the error was to the same side indicating it is probably not a wheel dishing problem.

[MENTION=493423]Karri_R[/MENTION], you won't be able to attach a photo to a message until you get 10 posts. But, if you try attaching one, it will go to your album where we can find it.

https://www.bikeforums.net/g/user/493423

Did you answer if you had horizontal dropouts or vertical dropouts?

Perhaps some close-up photos of the dropouts (right and left ones) without the wheel installed.

It may or may not be informative to viewers. Somewhere you missed something.

I went and did what mr. 66 said. Tubes are align to my eye, but I found out something else.

The chainstays are only tubes with lugged joints. All other tubes are welded. Crank-side lug is farther from the side of the BB. Maybe because of chainring clearance? Chainstays are not dimpled. Left-side lug starts from the edge of the BB. The difference is max. 1.5 mm.

I will try to align rear triangle couple of millimeter to left and share the outcome after that.

I know you're anxious to figure this out and fix it, but it might be best to post photos to your personal album (as suggested above) and get some feedback from the folks here before bending more metal.

If you post photos to your personal album, someone here will give a pic assist and post them to this thread on your behalf.