Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Bottom bracket question

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Bottom bracket question

Old 05-30-23, 12:47 PM
  #1  
cemark
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 32

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse SE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bottom bracket question

I dont know how this happened but when i was changing my seatpost i saw some corrosion in the seat tube all the way down to the bottom bracket area. I did some research and found a good solution that almost worked perfect. I cleaned the rust with steel wool but at the bottom bracket area the two sides of the down tube made it impossible to clean. I put some before and after picture. It looks much cleaner but i couldnt clean it all because of the shape of the bottom bracket area. I dont know whats exactly called that part. Is there a practical solution for it? Does it still look bad and may cause a problem in the future?

Also when i was cleaning i removed the bottom bracket and realized that one part of the bottom bracket which is the middle cylinder is missing. Probably bicycle mechanic didnt put it and i just realized it. Should i be worried and order a new bottom bracket or that specific part or can i still use the bicycle as it is. I never had a problem with the bicycle using like this but i just wanted to make sure.



After

After 2

Before

Before 1
cemark is offline  
Old 05-30-23, 06:12 PM
  #2  
mpetry912 
aged to perfection
 
mpetry912's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PacNW
Posts: 1,393

Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked 843 Times in 461 Posts
so you're scrubbing all that "rust" and letting the residue cascade down into the bottom bracket ?

isn't Cannondale aluminum ? does aluminum rust ?

what am I missing here ?

/markp
mpetry912 is offline  
Likes For mpetry912:
Old 05-30-23, 06:25 PM
  #3  
soyabean
Senior Member
 
soyabean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 659
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 374 Post(s)
Liked 296 Times in 197 Posts
I don't think the OP realizes that there are dozens of types of bottom brackets, and the one in diagram is a popular sealed unit, which may not apply to the OP.

"middle cylinder is missing" means it isn't a sealed unit, and just a crown race bearing type found on most big box store bikes.

Seat tube "corrosion" isn't an issue and safe to leave as-is. A well lubed seatpost is all it takes.

The OP did all this for nothing, and sure caused more damage by inadvertently honing out the seat tube to a possibly larger diameter.

This is why exists Local Bike Shops.

They are there to help.
soyabean is offline  
Old 05-30-23, 06:36 PM
  #4  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,752

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1201 Post(s)
Liked 609 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by mpetry912
so you're scrubbing all that "rust" and letting the residue cascade down into the bottom bracket ?

isn't Cannondale aluminum ? does aluminum rust ?

what am I missing here ?

/markp
you're assuming that cemark only owns one bike.

Look at the thickness of the seat tube.. that's not an aluminum frame.
maddog34 is online now  
Likes For maddog34:
Old 05-30-23, 06:46 PM
  #5  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,752

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1201 Post(s)
Liked 609 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by soyabean
I don't think the OP realizes that there are dozens of types of bottom brackets, and the one in diagram is a popular sealed unit, which may not apply to the OP.

"middle cylinder is missing" means it isn't a sealed unit, and just a crown race bearing type found on most big box store bikes.

Seat tube "corrosion" isn't an issue and safe to leave as-is. A well lubed seatpost is all it takes.

The OP did all this for nothing, and sure caused more damage by inadvertently honing out the seat tube to a possibly larger diameter.

This is why exists Local Bike Shops.

They are there to help.
the term "crown race" refers only to a part of a Headset.

and many cup and cone BB assemblies come with a removable plastic tube to help prevent garbage and water from easily entering the BB bearings... whether it's "missing" or not has yet to be determined.

To Cemark... nice job cleaning up the bike's tubes ! there are products meant to coat the insides of frame tubes to limit further rusting... here's an article on the process.. there are others, i'm certain. https://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spe...ur_steel_frame

If the Rust has popped through the tubes in ANY AREA, the frame is not even close to "safe" and don't waste another minute on it, ok? just find another frame or project with less rust..

so far, it appears the frame is worth saving.. wha brand and model?

Last edited by maddog34; 05-30-23 at 06:50 PM.
maddog34 is online now  
Old 05-30-23, 06:52 PM
  #6  
soyabean
Senior Member
 
soyabean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 659
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 374 Post(s)
Liked 296 Times in 197 Posts
Originally Posted by maddog34
the term "crown race" refers only to a part of a Headset.

and many cup and cone BB assemblies come with a removable tube to help prevent garbage and water from easily entering the BB bearings... whether it's "missing" or not has yet to be determined.
Nope.

Crown encased bearings were popular since the 90s and still used today in many new big box store bikes. We call them that because it looks like a royalty's crown.

Likewise, I have never see big box store bikes with any removable tube. That surely adds manufacturing costs.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
crown.jpg (48.4 KB, 63 views)
soyabean is offline  
Old 05-30-23, 07:08 PM
  #7  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 4,508

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2693 Post(s)
Liked 2,228 Times in 1,351 Posts
Those are “caged” bearings. And they definitely aren’t “races.” The “crown race” is part of a headset.
smd4 is offline  
Likes For smd4:
Old 05-30-23, 07:12 PM
  #8  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,752

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1201 Post(s)
Liked 609 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by soyabean
Nope.

Crown encased bearings were popular since the 90s and still used today in many new big box store bikes. We call them that because it looks like a royalty's crown.

Likewise, I have never see big box store bikes with any removable tube. That surely adds manufacturing costs.
the bearings you pictured are commonly known as "Caged bearings". and your timeline is horridly truncated, demonstrating a basic lack of experience

just curious, where are you getting the idea that the bike is a "box store" bike?

Last edited by maddog34; 05-30-23 at 07:20 PM.
maddog34 is online now  
Old 05-30-23, 07:37 PM
  #9  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,083

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2547 Post(s)
Liked 3,047 Times in 1,847 Posts
Originally Posted by soyabean
Nope. We call them that because it looks like a royalty's crown.
And we call them "caged" as well as most of the industry.

​​​​​​https://www.google.com/search?q=cage...hrome&ie=UTF-8
dedhed is offline  
Old 05-30-23, 08:04 PM
  #10  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 17,573

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3983 Post(s)
Liked 3,364 Times in 2,041 Posts
Retainer ring of balls is another reference for the caged balls. Crown race as in fork crown. Never heard of a retainer/cage being called a crown but I do see the resemblance. "sealed" can mean the bearing unit only or the entire BB assembly. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 05-30-23, 10:30 PM
  #11  
cemark
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 32

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse SE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by mpetry912
so you're scrubbing all that "rust" and letting the residue cascade down into the bottom bracket ?

isn't Cannondale aluminum ? does aluminum rust ?

what am I missing here ?

/markp
I removed the bottom bracket and cleaned all the residue but there are still some leftover because i couldnt reach with a cloth to the corners that i tried to show in the pictures

bicycle frame is steel by the way
cemark is offline  
Old 05-30-23, 10:43 PM
  #12  
Russ Roth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,494

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 956 Post(s)
Liked 821 Times in 606 Posts
Originally Posted by cemark
I removed the bottom bracket and cleaned all the residue but there are still some leftover because i couldnt reach with a cloth to the corners that i tried to show in the pictures

bicycle frame is steel by the way
The area you can't reach is unimportant as is the part of the BB you may be missing. You've done a good job cleaning the seat tube, spritzing a little PB blaster down the tube to lightly coat the frame isn't the worst idea, not as good as JP Weigle's frame saver but good enough. Just remember to remove and spray from the top where the post is clamped, that should be liberally greased if using a steel or aluminum seat post or using carbon paste if a carbon post.
'
Russ Roth is offline  
Likes For Russ Roth:
Old 05-30-23, 10:59 PM
  #13  
Bill Kapaun
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,624

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1699 Post(s)
Liked 1,074 Times in 761 Posts
Originally Posted by soyabean
Nope.

Crown encased bearings were popular since the 90s and still used today in many new big box store bikes. We call them that because it looks like a royalty's crown.......
Who is this "we"?
It's certainly not "us".
Ignore list.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 05-31-23, 12:29 AM
  #14  
cemark
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 32

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse SE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I keep learning new stuff about cycling everyday when i have problems like this. I thought i did have a well lubed seatpost but i may have mistaken or somehow a little water penetrated into the seat tube.
This is a Salsa Vaya frameset. I bought all the parts individually and gave them all to my local bike shop. They provided the bottom bracket. So i didnt even know which bottom bracket they used.
I wanted to sell this bicycle and i wanted to have peace of mind after i sell it. I didnt want to give a damaged bicycle frameset to someone. Probably no one would ever check whats happening in the seattube with a flashlight.
I dont think i made the seat tube any larger. maybe 0.001cm wider. I just used a steel wool and polished those rusted area for 30 second. Still, hopefully didnt damage the frameset.
cemark is offline  
Old 05-31-23, 12:36 AM
  #15  
cemark
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 32

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse SE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Its Salsa Vaya and I have it only for 2 years. To me its worth saving as i have built it the covid times which was a pain in the a.. I had to wait months for parts that i had to order from all around the world.
I checked all the frameset and it looks completely new from outside, no rust whatsoever. I kept it inside all the time and covered possible contact points of the frame with thicker protective stickers.
Thanks for the link. I will definitely coat the insides of the tubes. I will either sell the it or keep it for a long time but either case i would like to keep it in a good condition.
cemark is offline  
Likes For cemark:
Old 05-31-23, 12:42 AM
  #16  
cemark
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 32

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse SE

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks for the advise, i will look try to find a PB blaster or the frame saver. I live in Israel and it wont be so easy to find the JP Weigle's frame saver and they wont ship it here probably.
I did put the bottom bracket back to its place. Should i revome the cranckset and bottom bracket again before coating the seat tube?

Right now i am using aluminium seatpost buy i will buy a carbon seatpost. I will use carbon paste indeed.
cemark is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.