professor229

Will try this again because I don't think my original post went through..... bought a used E Bike recumbent bike.... It started to have flat tires on a regular basis only on the back.... front tube has never been replaced... Yesterday, I rode for an hour, parked the bike in the garage... came out and it had a flat tire... probably a slow leak.... but this is about the fifth/sixth flat tire in the last two years. Had the wheel essentially rebuilt/trued and new spokes added... got about ten minutes for the bike shop, and another flat tire.... took it back and the kid said the wrong liner/gasket had been installed and put in a wider gasket to protect the tube from the spokes.... this lasted a couple days and yet, another flat tire... This time I bought a four pack of tubes and fixed it myself.... that was over two months ago... so I did better than the pros..... So....I have installed a lot of tubes and know all about pinching etc... and that is not the problem... The back tire has very little tread which I assume is normal for a recumbent boke... but I wonder if the tire itself is so old and so poor, that it might be letting sharp rocks affect the tire. It is one of the things I will try to replace... would adding a second layer of gasket between the tube and spokes be a good or bad idea? Each time, I feel for something that might puncture the tube and find nothing.... Any ideas appreciated... but I will start with a new tire I think... Is there anything else I am missing?

Thanks for your ideas/suggestions.... Dennis

Oakman

Where are the punctures located? On the inside, outside, or along the sidewalls? This info will help find the problem.

professor229

The only thing I find, is by removing the tire and there is a very small puncture wound in the tube...... almost imperceptible until you add air pressure.... Are you saying that perhaps the condition of the tire itself is the cause of the problem? The tire will be replaced as my first intervention....

professor229

Just thinking out loud..... and perhaps a good idea would be to look at where that hole is in the tube... if the hole is on the valve stem lower underside of the tube, it is probably a spoke affecting it.. if it is on the top of the tube it would suggest it is from a rock or something from the road puncturing the tube???

andrewclaus

Ditto the above. And if there's a label on the tire, install it located at the valve to further aid in locating tire problems.

What size tire? Rated pressure vs inflated pressure? Double wall or single wall rim?

The "gasket" you mention is called a "rim strip" and it's important to get the right type, size, and correct installation.

If you're just picking up a lot of road debris you might try a different tire with more flat protection built in. Schwalbe and Continental make some good ones.

Some cyclists use tire liners, like Tuffy Liners.

It's not unusual to get many more flats on the rear than on the front.

Lombard

Exactly this.

Another possibility is if there is a burr on the rim itself puncturing the tube. Run your fingers carefully along the inside of the rim and see if you feel anything sharp.

dedhed

Better yet rub a cotton ball over the rim and inside of the tire to find those tiny hidden things that cause flats.

Iride01 

When you get a flat, you need to remove the tube and lay it on the tire and rim the same way it was oriented in them. Then find the hole and you'll know better what things to eliminate or suspect as potential causes or not.

The big thing is to be willing to accept that it was installation errors where it was damaged by levers if used to put the tire back on, or that the tube got caught between the rim and tire bead as you rolled the bead onto the rim. Sometimes that results in a immediate flat when inflating the tube/tire, but often for me it became a flat several rides later.

Andrew R Stewart 

Both E bikes and recumbents are known for tire wear/flats for a few reasons. Add them together and...

Tread depth has nothing to do with how the bike is powered and everything to do with how that tire works in the various conditions it's used in. But a worn thin tire does have less rubber between the inside air and the outside, meaning it takes a smaller bit to cut all the way through the tire.

At some point peace of mind will be worth more than a replacement tire costs. And good for you to do this yourself. Andy

professor229

Update: Pulled the wheel off the bike, before removing the tire I chalk marked the orientation of the tire relative to the valve stem for reference.... removed the tube and then removed the tire completely..... aired up the tube and it pretty much was holding air so I really had to examine it closely.... found the very very tiny pinhole on the topside of the tube; in other words not on the underside (valve stem side) .... so the hole was not caused by a spoke issue. It was about a quarter inch off top center of the tube. I cleaned the inside of the tire with a damp towel, got out a new tube and also cleaned that.... I ran a cotton ball on the inner rim for laughs and there is no burr.... So ********** no definitive answer... put it all back together, installed the wheel... took it for a two mile test drive and think I might have the answer... after a short time, I heard a click click click from the back wheel, stopped an there was a rock wedged into a part of the back tread... now, I don't know how to explain it other than to say that there are small holes in the tread like there were in the old car days when you had studded snow tires but no studs in the tires... a rock had wedged inside one of these holes... and I removed it... no more click click click.... could it be that the tire holes caught a sharp rock? PS... I hate oak trees at this time of the year! Thanks for the education...... Dennis

maddog34

the most common "recurring flat tire" problem i've found is a Thorn INSIDE the Tire.. and Some of them don't protrude until the Thorn is PUSHED into the tube by the road or even gravel hitting exactly the wrong spot.... See if the flat-prone location is directly adjacent to one of those Wear Indicator holes... no? then take the tire and sort-of turn it inside out in the flat-prone-zone... This tends to make any thorns protrude and Then you can remove that pesky thing.
I've also found tiny bits of wire, and the occasional Carpet tack hiding in the tread areas... Squeezing the not-aired-up tire, and bright light, helps expose those... personally, i make sure to put on my reading glasses too.

i once was given a Diamondback Crossover bike that the owner was convinced was "Cursed."
Turned out that there were over 15 Thorns hiding in the rear tire.... i quit counting at 15... i recall seeing a series of HAWTHORNE trees between his home and the 7-11 he'd mentioned a few times as he gave me the bike.....

downtube42

The key is to find the hole on every single flat, and know the tube orientation and tire orientation to identify the exact spot. Every. Single. Time.

As said above, tiny sharp things can get embedded in the rubber and only show themselves when the tire is being flexed by rolling. Finding the location will point to where the problem lies.

In 50+ years of cycling, I've thrown away exactly one "cursed" tire where I could not find the culprit after multiple flats. Something was there, but it defied being found.

Bleu

I have had tiny bits of glass work into a tire ,usually a Schwalbe, and not poke through until the tire is inflated and you ride a short distance. Many times digging out the junk ruins the tire, and I have to replace it anyway. FWIW if you patch a tube enough times eventually it becomes less susceptible to flats.

professor229

Hmmmm I guess I am still learning and I think the problem is getting narrowed down....

I wiped the entire inside of the tire down several times thinking perhaps there was an extremely small something inside and with a damp new white cloth, whatever it was would simply stick to the cloth.... I found nothing. I bought a four pack of tubes and am on number two now... two left to go... If it happens again, I am going to turn the tire inside out as suggested and get out a magnifying glass but tell me, what's a thorn? Is it a general term for any kind of foreign object?

And also, in the old days I patched many many car tires, but I have never patched a bike tire. Is there a decent video or product anyone can recommend to repair a bike tire? This latest incident was such a small hole, that I think I can fix this one easily enough..... What should I buy? Better yet, what shouldn't I buy to repair a tube?

PS.... and this is probably a weird question... but I know there is a special thicker product you can add to the rim to protect against spokes... is there a product you can line the inside of the tire with that is similar?

And finally.... If you buy a new tire, can you safely assume that there are no foreign objects embedded in the inside of the tire from the manufacturer or are there no guarantees on that?

Iride01 

You might be getting a pinch flat. Though many will be two holes because both sides of the rim pinch the tube, there are also just as many that might be only one hole because the bike isn't in the perfect orientation to get those two pinch points.

Do you check your tire pressure often and keep it inflated to whatever your proper pressure is? If you are getting pinch flats, then your proper pressure may not be proper for the riding conditions you encounter.

Andrew R Stewart 

A thorn is a plant bit, a woody conical shape with a sharp point at one end. These will, much like small bits of wire or a nail, will find their way between and through the casing's fabric and in time reach the tube. Glass and shards of metal will usually have enough of a "face" or "edge" which contacts more than one or two fibers in the casing. This aspect is why a kevlar belted tire does a good job at protecting against glass and shard flats but less able for thorns and nails/wire flats.

On fixing the flat and inflating the tire one needs to observe the spot where the object, or cut, was. If there's and localized bulging the casing has had enough cord damage to potentially cause the next flat. The temp fix is to place a layer of some material (dollar bill, Cliff Bar wrapper) inside the tire and over the tube at that spot to additionally support the tube and prevent a herniating out. The long term fix is to replace the tire. Get a basic vulcanizing (read as having separate glue) tube patch kit, available from any LBS and through many on line venders.

The strip/ribbon that covers the spokes and protects the tube from their nipple ends is generally called a rim strip. These are made in various ways from what are huge "rubber bands", to plastic ribbons formed into a band and/or cloth adhesive backed strips that are laid in the rim and cut to the needed length. The cloth version (Velox being the big name) is very strong and protective if a bit clumsy to install if the adhesive isn't tacky enough. If your rim is what we call a double walled, or box, shape then the cloth or plastic strips are suggested as the basic rubber ones will bulge into each spoke access hole in the rim's upper bed/wall. But your question makes me wonder if there's more going on then just wanting to better understanding all this. Are you suspecting spoke caused flats?

Tire liners (Mr Tuffy being the big name) have been around for many decades and still haven't found wide spread use. They do reduce the poke throughs of objects but if the object stays in the casing it will finially cut through the added layer too. That layer/liner it's self can cause an abrasion flat where the liner's ends rub and slowly "sand away" the tube in one spot. Keeping tires with liners fully inflated helps reduce this cause but will add to the tire's already harsher ride feel that the liner has increased (the tire is less supple).

It is a very good practice to periodically check your tires for any imbedded bits and pick them out if any are there. Will a new tire need this? Sure hope not but the person who mounts that tire is the last quality control check so we hope they do that last check, and include the tire's inside as that's where shop floor bits can get into a tire. Andy

Lombard

You mean if you patch the tube in so many places that the whole tube is nothing but patches? Seems like even a heavy thorn resistant tube would weigh less!

2old

In socal we have what are referred to as "goat heads" which usually penetrate the tube minimally (thorn-proof tubes will thwart them); the ride isn't interrupted, but the next day you awaken to a flat tire. Sounds as though you may have something similar.

grumpus

You may be able to feel foreign bodies stuck in the rubber, but you should exercise caution as it's not hard to slice a fingertip on a small piece of glass or flint. Sometimes the problem is embedded and can't be felt, it only protrudes from the rubber as the tyre flexes - to find these you need to examine the tyre for cuts. Rolling and pinching the tyre as you search can make cuts more obvious. If you find a cut and there doesn't seem to be anything in it, try sticking something like a spoke through the hole - this can dislodge hidden hazards.

professor229

Again... thanks for the education.... All I can do is take this one step at a time. The last tube I installed myself and it lasted the longest time. The pro bike shop installed one of the tubes before I got into "DIY" mode.... and their tube last two whole blocks. The rim had been rebuilt and new spokes installed. The guy installed the wrong rim strip... The only reason I checked on the location of the tiny pin hole was to determine if the problem was with the tire or the rim. Initially the problems were caused by the spokes. They were replaced and now it appears to be something with the tire. If it happens again I am going to turn the tire inside out and use a magnifying glass to try to locate a problem... I might also try a new tire.... eventually.... What is strange though, is the rear tire is the problem and never the front tire.... As far as pressure, it says on the side wall to inflate to 100 psi and the bike is easier to pedal at 100 psi but this time, I went with 90 psi.... not a big deal... so far, so good this week and will just keep on trying.... Thanks again for all your help. I belong to several forums for different things and I think this forum has been the most helpful and informative..... Have a good one....

rekmeyata

How old are your tires?

Do you need a knobby tread design or would a milder design work better? You don't need knobbies unless you're going off road a lot, a mild tread design can still do gravel.

A tire liner would be better than a thorn resistant tube, all thorn tubes are very poorly made, they fail at the valve stem base all the time, no matter the brand. Instead use a tire liner, but the Mr Tuffy is not that great of a liner, it's ok, but there is a better one called Clear Motion Rhinodillos, these are tougher than the Tuffy, no pun intended, or maybe it was intended, anyway, these are tougher to cut with scissors, and a lot tougher to push a tack through, plus they have a soft end on one end of the liner that prevents the liner from chaffing the tube and eventually causing a flat.

Schwalbe has a couple of the best flat resistant tires on the market, the Almotion Microskin tire has the lowest rolling resistance of any Ebike tire on the market, but the same model with V-Guard protection has better flat protection. So, if your need is to be able to roll further on a battery go with the Microskin, but if flats are more your concern, then go with the V-Guard. On my wife's Ebike I put the Rhinodillos liner in to protect her from getting a flat, and then put the Microskin tire on the front, and the V-guard on the rear since most flats are on the rear. So far after 3 years no flats.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

mpetry912 

replace the rim strip. Run a Mr Tuffy. and use high quality tubes and tires.

/markp

professor229

OK... let the education continue... I spent some time now studying the items mentioned in the last two posts and have some questions and some answers. First, this is an old school recumbent bike and is NOT an E Bike.... it is a Bike E.... which was the company name of recumbent bikes and is no longer in business. I bought it used off CraigsList and sold my pro bike because my shoulders couldn't handle the conventional bike after surgery. TMI? Anyway..... I have no idea how old the tires are but I suspect a new rear tire would go a long way to solving this problem. I searched for all the products mentioned and prefer to at least look at Amazon because most of the time I find the reviews to be honest and detailed. I ride almost exclusively on residential streets but in the late summer/fall there seems to be more debris on the streets even though the suburb I live in cleans them quite often. the plan is to try one more time with a new tube and if this one also fails, then try a new tire and some anti-flat devices mentioned. Again... all the ideas and suggestions are greatly appreciated.....

choddo

I would just get a new tyre now and save yourself doing the work twice.

Lombard

Have you found this personally, or are you just writing something you have heard? I have not found this myself.