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Newbee question on gearing

Old 11-17-23, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
A useful link would be something like
https://www.amazon.com/Sturmey-Arche...003LHMJRQ?th=1
I've never seen an 11t freewheel, please prove one exists? Best I knew of as a result of a similar discussion to this earlier in the year was the 13t I found, until then I shared the illusion that 14t was smallest but I'd be happy to have you correct me further.


Your responses show that Kontact is right, you don't yet have the knowledge you need. Some pointers. If there's no BCD on a low end bike, start by presuming its riveted and the rings can't be changed. Buying a bigger one will be a waste of money. Cassettes =/= freewheels, you need to understand the difference in the terms. First indicator is that its 7sp, and has a 14t small cog, always the first sign of a freewheel; cassettes, until 11sp, almost universally started with an 11t small cog with just the occasional 12t. A bike with a 13t would have been an aftermarket replacement and an actual 14t would have suggested Jr gearing and a swap. So 14t=freewheel. Freewheels require a freewheel remover, not a cassette remove, and despite the similar appearances, they're not all that interchangeable. Swapping to a cassette then will require an entirely different wheel to match the attachment style of the new cassette and a cassette lockring tool, removal of a cassette would also require a chain whip and not just a cassette removal tool. Now you know why Kontact is telling you to learn more.
Let’s presume you said
I only ask “for what”
To help your claim. How bout let’s not presume or assume or expect or have claim perceived notions.
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Old 11-17-23, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
A useful link would be something like
https://www.amazon.com/Sturmey-Arche...003LHMJRQ?th=1
I've never seen an 11t freewheel, please prove one exists? Best I knew of as a result of a similar discussion to this earlier in the year was the 13t I found, until then I shared the illusion that 14t was smallest but I'd be happy to have you correct me further.


Your responses show that Kontact is right, you don't yet have the knowledge you need. Some pointers. If there's no BCD on a low end bike, start by presuming its riveted and the rings can't be changed. Buying a bigger one will be a waste of money. Cassettes =/= freewheels, you need to understand the difference in the terms. First indicator is that its 7sp, and has a 14t small cog, always the first sign of a freewheel; cassettes, until 11sp, almost universally started with an 11t small cog with just the occasional 12t. A bike with a 13t would have been an aftermarket replacement and an actual 14t would have suggested Jr gearing and a swap. So 14t=freewheel. Freewheels require a freewheel remover, not a cassette remove, and despite the similar appearances, they're not all that interchangeable. Swapping to a cassette then will require an entirely different wheel to match the attachment style of the new cassette and a cassette lockring tool, removal of a cassette would also require a chain whip and not just a cassette removal tool. Now you know why Kontact is telling you to learn more.

cassette or freewheel removal tool
Let’s not allow the misuse of nomenclatures
bring your profound thought process to a screeching halt
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Old 11-17-23, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
A useful link would be something like
https://www.amazon.com/Sturmey-Arche...003LHMJRQ?th=1
I've never seen an 11t freewheel, please prove one exists? Best I knew of as a result of a similar discussion to this earlier in the year was the 13t I found, until then I shared the illusion that 14t was smallest but I'd be happy to have you correct me further.
Oh, you mean that I should have helped AtnJeer out with a real link, just because he was being so sweet?
Here's a link to an 11t freewheel you can buy today:
https://www.amazon.com/DRIFT-MANIAC-...07XYNSHZC?th=1

And here's a link to a 1986 Shimano brochure to a 12-23 freewheel that I personally bought in 1989:
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...re_scan_9.html
Here's a Bicycling article from 1978 about Regina's new 7 speed freewheel with 12t cogs:
https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_itemId=5985
Here's Sheldon telling you about 12t Winner Pro freewheels:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/suntour-freewheel.html


And you are also completely wrong about cassettes. The first 11t cassette wasn't until 50-34 road gearing. I bought a new 13-26 8 speed cassette recently, and all my other cassettes start with 12t.

And finally, here's the keys to the kingdom so you can find all the amazing stuff I did in 5 minutes:
Google

Funny how people that have limited experience always want people who have vast amounts to "prove" stuff to them. Your accountant must really enjoy your visits.

Last edited by Kontact; 11-17-23 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 11-17-23, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AtNjineer
cassette or freewheel removal tool
Let’s not allow the misuse of nomenclatures
bring your profound thought process to a screeching halt
Freewheel remover is as correct as any other nomenclature, thanks.
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Old 11-17-23, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AtNjineer
Let’s presume you said
I only ask “for what”
To help your claim. How bout let’s not presume or assume or expect or have claim perceived notions.
What's up with the weird grammar and punctuation?
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Old 11-17-23, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AtNjineer



now what since I’m the one that lives under a rock and knows nothing lol
Still showing. Congrats, you found the 11t freewheel that Kontact was talking about, and these two things are? The OP has a freewheel, the first of these two doesn't even relate to bicycles, the other is for a cassette.

Originally Posted by AtNjineer
Let’s presume you said
I only ask “for what”
To help your claim. How bout let’s not presume or assume or expect or have claim perceived notions.
Umm, don't do drugs when typing? You should try that.

Originally Posted by AtNjineer
cassette or freewheel removal tool
Let’s not allow the misuse of nomenclatures
bring your profound thought process to a screeching halt
Right, don't misuse nominclatures. and don't use a freewheel removal tool on a cassette lockring or a cassette lockring removal tool on a freewheel because they're not the same tool, being for different systems, as I pointed out.

Originally Posted by Kontact
Oh, you mean that I should have helped AtnJeer out with a real link, just because he was being so sweet?
Here's a link to an 11t freewheel you can buy today:
https://www.amazon.com/DRIFT-MANIAC-...07XYNSHZC?th=1

And here's a link to a 1986 Shimano brochure to a 12-23 freewheel that I personally bought in 1989:
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...re_scan_9.html
Here's a Bicycling article from 1978 about Regina's new 7 speed freewheel with 12t cogs:
https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_itemId=5985
Here's Sheldon telling you about 12t Winner Pro freewheels:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/suntour-freewheel.html

And you are also completely wrong about cassettes. The first 11t cassette wasn't until 50-34 road gearing. I bought a new 13-26 8 speed cassette recently, and all my other cassettes start with 12t.

And finally, here's the keys to the kingdom so you can find all the amazing stuff I did in 5 minutes:
Google

Funny how people that have limited experience always want people who have vast amounts to "prove" stuff to them. Your accountant must really enjoy your visits.
Good job finally posting a useful link, is it any good? As to the relics you linked to, the stuff of the past is C&V and not really reasonable for the average, non collecting user to look around for. Not certain where you got the idea that 11t cassettes started with compact cranks, but by the time I started working in shops in the late 90s no one was actually asking for 12sp starting cassettes and no bike was coming with a 13t. If earlier than the mid-90s bikes were coming predominantly with 12t starting cassettes than that's fine, I'm partially corrected and for 18-20 years bikes typically came factory with an 11t cassette. Your statement that you bought is 13t doesn't mean anything in relation to what I said which was that a 13t will be aftermarket, no new bike that I've seen comes with a 13t, freewheel or cassette, perhaps some small builder specs it. If its freewheel than all the bikes I built over the last year used one of the same two basic freewheels, either shimano or sunrace, and all started 14t. If its a modern cassette its either 11t or smaller and nothing new is coming with 12t today. As to accountants, if you don't question what they're doing and just trust them implicitly, you're a fool, and if you don't like sharing your "vast knowledge" than don't.
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Old 11-18-23, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth

Good job finally posting a useful link, is it any good? As to the relics you linked to, the stuff of the past is C&V and not really reasonable for the average, non collecting user to look around for. Not certain where you got the idea that 11t cassettes started with compact cranks, but by the time I started working in shops in the late 90s no one was actually asking for 12sp starting cassettes and no bike was coming with a 13t. If earlier than the mid-90s bikes were coming predominantly with 12t starting cassettes than that's fine, I'm partially corrected and for 18-20 years bikes typically came factory with an 11t cassette. Your statement that you bought is 13t doesn't mean anything in relation to what I said which was that a 13t will be aftermarket, no new bike that I've seen comes with a 13t, freewheel or cassette, perhaps some small builder specs it. If its freewheel than all the bikes I built over the last year used one of the same two basic freewheels, either shimano or sunrace, and all started 14t. If its a modern cassette its either 11t or smaller and nothing new is coming with 12t today. As to accountants, if you don't question what they're doing and just trust them implicitly, you're a fool, and if you don't like sharing your "vast knowledge" than don't.
You made a statement about freewheels that was completely erroneous. It wasn't true 40 years ago, it isn't true now.
I bought a Sunrace 7 speed 12-28 freewheel 3 years ago.

Same with cassettes. They are available with 11, 12, 13 and 14 starting cogs.

What's popular is pretty different than what is available. If you meant to just talk about popularity, do so.


I like sharing knowledge. I don't like having to convince people that something that has been true for decades isn't some secret because they live in a bubble.
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Old 11-18-23, 01:33 AM
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The op should have something useful to read at the end of this

wanna go faster?

put a smaller group of gears in rear or put a larger gear in the front
or do both

things will either look or ride not like before
you can make needed adjustments. With the adjustment screws at the front and rear derailurs

maybe you’ll have to loosen and raise the front derailur
maybe you’ll have to add or remove a link of chain

Some* things to expect

goodluck
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Old 11-18-23, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by One Wheel
It looks like the bike is an entry-level 29" MTB. It would be difficult, and not very useful, to increase wheel size.
Username checks out

Seriously though - why does that need an increased wheel size?
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Old 11-18-23, 05:48 AM
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I think you just proved Kontact’s point
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Old 11-18-23, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by choddo
Username checks out

Seriously though - why does that need an increased wheel size?
It doesn't. The post I quoted suggested that it would be cheaper and easier to swap the wheel and cassette than the crank, I was pointing out that swapping out the wheel to get a higher final gear ratio would be difficult and futile.
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Old 11-18-23, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by One Wheel
It doesn't. The post I quoted suggested that it would be cheaper and easier to swap the wheel and cassette than the crank, I was pointing out that swapping out the wheel to get a higher final gear ratio would be difficult and futile.
OK well what you actually said was
It looks like the bike is an entry-level 29" MTB. It would be difficult, and not very useful, to increase wheel size.
hence my confusion
I agree the chainrings on that seem a bit on the small side for his kind of riding.
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Old 11-18-23, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by AtNjineer
The op should have something useful to read at the end of this

wanna go faster?

put a smaller group of gears in rear or put a larger gear in the front
or do both

things will either look or ride not like before
you can make needed adjustments. With the adjustment screws at the front and rear derailurs

maybe you’ll have to loosen and raise the front derailur
maybe you’ll have to add or remove a link of chain

Some* things to expect

goodluck
You know you don’t have to hit return when you get to the edge of the text box? It will wrap by itself.

That is somewhat helpful now you’ve added the points about the changes needed to the front mech and chain.

But you didn’t touch on the max tooth difference recommended between chainrings to get decent shifting (usually 16 for Shimano) and we still don’t know if the OP’s crankset allows removal of chainrings or if they are riveted.

Now I know there’s a 7speed freewheel with 11T, that would seem to be the obvious answer. About 25% faster at the top end.

(assuming the interface with the hub is the same. I’ve only ever seen two of these and one was 6speed, very very old and had a different thread pattern)
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Old 11-18-23, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
14 was never a limit for freewheels. Why suggest something so daft?
Hanging out with the one piece BB guy is my guess...
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Old 11-18-23, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by One Wheel
It doesn't. The post I quoted suggested that it would be cheaper and easier to swap the wheel and cassette than the crank, I was pointing out that swapping out the wheel to get a higher final gear ratio would be difficult and futile.
The point of swapping the wheel would be to use a cassette rather than a freewheel, not to change wheel size.
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Old 11-18-23, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by One Wheel
It doesn't. The post I quoted suggested that it would be cheaper and easier to swap the wheel and cassette than the crank, I was pointing out that swapping out the wheel to get a higher final gear ratio would be difficult and futile.
I’ve got to disagree. A replacement wheel is going to be the easiest and cheapest route to higher gears as I pointed out above. Yes, you’d need a cassette and would have to mount the disc rotor and tire. But those are fairly trivial tasks. A crank is going to be more expensive and cost more in labor to replace.

Changing the rear gearing gives more bang for the buck in terms of speed. Please note, I make an error in post 6 on speed. I was using kph on the gear calculator rather the mph…sorry. That said, changing the chainring from a 36 to a 40 tooth ring, increases the speed from 19 mph on a 700C wheel with 47mm tires at 90 rpm to 21 mph. Changing the rear wheel to an 11 tooth cog from a 14 increases speed from 19 to 25mph with the 36 tooth outer ring. Going to a 44 tooth outer (while sacrificing the 22 low) would only increase speed to 23mph
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Old 11-18-23, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
I’ve got to disagree. A replacement wheel is going to be the easiest and cheapest route to higher gears as I pointed out above.
Nope. A replacement freewheel is all that's necessary. See thread.
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Old 11-18-23, 09:49 AM
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“This message is hidden because Kontact is on your ignore list.”

You promised to put me on ignore but never did. Since I thought that was about the only good advice you have ever offered, I did what you won’t do.
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Old 11-18-23, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
What's up with the weird grammar and punctuation?
He's a poet evidently
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Old 11-18-23, 05:59 PM
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Yeah, I never would have suggested changing out the chain rings and all that if I had known there was an 11-28t freewheel available. When I searched extensively a few years back for something taller than the ubiquitous 14-28t I did manage to come across a 13-26t but it must have been gold plated. I would have been ecstatic to have found a 12t freewheel much less an 11t. The times they are a changing.
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Old 11-18-23, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Are you running out of gears? In other words, when you're in the big chainring on the front, and small cog in the rear, are your legs spinning faster than is comfortable for you?
Yes, then I coast.
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Old 11-18-23, 08:22 PM
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Wow, thanks I guess for the help. I'll just keep riding my cheap Talon the way it is. Didn't realize when a new rider was looking for some suggestions this is how it was going to go.
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Old 11-18-23, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bgdv1
Wow, thanks I guess for the help. I'll just keep riding my cheap Talon the way it is. Didn't realize when a new rider was looking for some suggestions this is how it was going to go.
None of the carnage is aimed at you.

I would suggest getting a 12-28 7 speed freewheel freewheel. They are common and you won't have potential compatibility issues. They cost $20 or less. The difference between your 14t and 12t high gear will be very evident.
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Old 11-18-23, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
None of the carnage is aimed at you.

I would suggest getting a 12-28 7 speed freewheel freewheel. They are common and you won't have potential compatibility issues. They cost $20 or less. The difference between your 14t and 12t high gear will be very evident.
Thank you, much appreciated.
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Old 11-18-23, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Amazon has 11-28 freewheels for $27

14 was never a limit for freewheels. Why suggest something so daft?
I've been riding 13 tooth freewheels since the days of dinosaurs. (Well, 1973 but they were well established earlier.) 7-speed 12 tooth FWs since 1995 and I was a latecomer there. The SunRace website shows both 13t and 12t FWs now.
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