Why would KMC say this?
 

One of my son-in-laws only brushes & wipes his chains, never would soak or use my Ultrasonic Cleaner as KMC on the web site says "DO NOT dip your chain in (aggressive) degreasers - they remove the remaining grease from the chain’s parts, and may cause cracks." on https://www.kmcchain.com/en/teach/ma...nce-bike-chain. Assuming OMS is an aggressive degreaser to KMC I am mystified by "cracks" and curious the basis of this as surely they want good life from their chains. Can it be that the average cyclist is incapable of keeping a chain lubed and needs factory grease to last a lifetime?

Probably a reflection of the POV expressed in this article: https://silca.cc/blogs/silca/hydroge...-break-a-chain

FWIW I used a pHydrion 1-13 range pH strip to check pH of red wine vinegar = 4, of Simple Green purchased at Sam's about 15 yrs ago
and pH was ~9, finally Palmolive Ultra Strength dish soap pH ~4. Acidic pH is somewhat more likely to "hydrogen embrittle" than alkaline
pH, but the effects of aqueous solutions on hydrogen embrittlement of steel at normal temps (under the boiling point) and pressures of atmospheric
are extremely small. It is primarily a problem at welding temperatures which are high enough to turn H20 into plasma.

OMS is not a degreaser it is a solvent.

True it is a solvent, however it is also another noun, an effective degreaser.

Long-time KMC high-end chain user here. Never did anything more than lightly wipe it after each lube.
Over 6k miles lifespan from every single one. Love 'em!

That is the same Silca article that had (for a few months) used my photo (below) without permission.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe09e41a92.jpg

(I believed that) I had damaged the original 105 chain (CN-HG600) on my bike for letting it soak overnight in purple degreaser.

cyccommute can explain in greater detail, but purple degreaser is basically a strong base in an aqueous solution, whereas odorless mineral spirits is an organic solvent refined from petroleum byproducts. Only the former carries a risk of hydrogen embrittlement.

The reference to caustic cleaners and fracture relates to radicals, ie. hydrogen or chlorine, which can migrate into the steel and degrade the crystal structure.

So, while typical petroleum solvent are fine, many aggressive cleaners are not. Not being able to list every problem cleaner out there KMC puts in a blanket warning.

Also consider that chain companies spend serious dough to provide chains with lubricants that will maximize chain life. Most people who diligently strip these lubes end up replacing it with something not nearly as good. IMO, if you change the lube, you forfeit, to an extent, the right to complain about chain life.

What do you think “degreasing” is or how it is accomplished? If you use a water based “degreaser” or mineral spirits, you are using a solvent to remove the grease.

Ages ago some water based degreasers had a high pH. They were basic which can cause some problems with steel or aluminum parts. The formulations have changed and SDSs seldom list basic materials in these degreasers.

Mineral spirits…real mineral spirits, not the water based “green” ones…have no effect on metal parts and little effect on most plastic parts.

Green mineral spirits is a very different animal and could lead to cracking if a salt contaminated chain is soaked in it. Several years ago I demonstrated how this could happen. (Please don’t resurrect this very old thread:rolleyes:) If you don’t want to wade through the whole thread, Here’s the result of the Great Chain Corrosion Experiment of 2011.

FWIW I use an ultrasonic cleaner to clean my chains and the solution is Lyman Turbo Sonic Steel and Gun Parts Cleaning Solution. It does a great job on the chains without any issues.

I figured it's not causing any problems with my guns - metal and plastic - and it isn't causing any problems with my chains.

I give the chains a good soaking in chain lube, wiping them off, reinstalling, operate the bikes through their gears before running another cloth over the chains.

Works for me but YMMV.

sure, but I don’t know solvent being advertised as degreaser.

Of possible relevance is this experience. It's not chain-related, but has to do with the effects of strong chemicals on stressed metal.
I had a set of couplers for MKS pedals. The couplers were quite rusty (why they were not stainless steel is a good question), so I soaked them in Naval Jelly (phosphoric acid gel) until the rust was gone... overnight as I remember. Not more than a few hundred miles later, one of the couplers fell apart. The other was cracked and on the way to failure. I have two other pairs of these couplers which have accumulated at least as many miles, but show no signs of failure. I have avoided the use of Naval Jelly on them.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...efb5ea85da.jpg
This coupler is not failing, but is disassembled for cleaning and replacement of the ball bearings. No H3PO4 was used.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dc50138531.jpg
This coupler was soaked in H3PO4 for rust removal. The cracks were discovered after the other coupler fell apart.

Removal of rust by phosphoric acid is going to leave the surface rough - not a good idea to use on surfaces that must be smooth, such as ball bearing and their races.

As for why not the stainless steel, the answer is always money!

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...oo-long-2.html

​​​​​​https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...ideplates.html

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...91a1bb6da.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89c0e06f8.jpeg
Diluted purple power Light coat diesel fuel !!

That’s mostly because people don’t understand chemistry. Safety Klean parts washers use mineral spirits in some applications and calls the solvent a degreaser. Anything that dissolves grease is a “degreaser”. Mineral spirits is actually a whole lot better at “degreasing” than water based degreasers are.

Naval Jelly is pretty rough stuff. Best to not use it for much more than a surface soaking. Evapo-Rust is a much better product which won’t damage rusted parts. I’ve even used it on painted parts with some success. I don’t have a before picture but I took a very rusted old bicycle license plate and soaked the rust off to make a belt buckle out of it

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ebcc7bc3c.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af1d8e3cb.jpeg

There was more rust on the back so the paint lifted more but the front of the plate came out quite nice.

It comes in huge quantities and can be reused. I took some to the co-op for treating rusty bolts we have around the shop and they came out super shiny. It uses what is call a celating agent to remove the rust. It can cause graying of some parts that have been coated with other metals. Make sure you rinse the parts after soaking and dry them quickly or else they will rust as they dry. I use denatured alcohol.

Why not just use plain old kerosene. There is no way it can hurt metal.

Because "plain old kerosene" isn't a readily available as it once was. 40 years ago, you might have been able to get kerosene at just about any corner gas station. Today, you have to seek out somewhere that carries. Mineral spirits are more readily available and come in smaller volumes

That will work - really stinky but functional.

It's not super common now but "white gas" for camping gear works well, e.g., Coleman fuel. Harder to find now that canister stoves and lanterns have taken over the market. Weirdly, the MDS shows different mixes of petroleum distillates depending on country, but in my experience it leaves no residue or "fragrance" like kerosene regardless of brand, plus evaporates quickly.

I suppose the deodorized lamp oils you can buy would be kerosene-adjacent.

Odorless mineral spirits is similar without the stink of either kerosene or “white gas” and with a much higher flash point than white gas.

If OMS was in any way harmful to metal, I doubt it would be sold in metal cans. It is a wonderful solvent, relatively cheap, not as toxic or flammable as some other solvents and it is readily available. Why look for anything else?

That other thread was interesting. Funny how some people can’t get their head around chemistry and keep trying to come up with physical causes because that’s much more intuitive.

Also: 1100 miles to break a 10speed chain. Must be something went on there.