Whoops! Left my chain in mineral spirits for (way) too long
10-20-11, 08:42 AM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
I concur that "real" OMS cannot attack, corrode or stress crack any steel or other metal parts no matter how long you let them soak. It can, of course, very thoroughly degrease and de-lube a chain so a good relubing is going to be needed after a prolonged soak. That's not your problem.
The "Mineral Spirits" you used are, as cyccoommute noted, an emulsoion of the real thing in water stabilized with a suitable surfactant. Apparently it is not friendly to chains if left in contact for a long time. If you found cracks in linlk other than just the quick link, that assures its damaging properties.
The "Mineral Spirits" you used are, as cyccoommute noted, an emulsoion of the real thing in water stabilized with a suitable surfactant. Apparently it is not friendly to chains if left in contact for a long time. If you found cracks in linlk other than just the quick link, that assures its damaging properties.
10-20-11, 10:06 AM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Ding Ding!!! Winner! It's called SCIENCE...Observe, Theorize, Predict, Test, Repeat. Pulling a random piece of metal out of solution after 8 long forgotten months and saying the conditions caused it just doesn't cut it. That's not science, that's anecdotal.
10-20-11, 12:52 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southwest MO
Posts: 782
Bikes: (2) 1994 Cannondale R900, red, Silver Trek hybrid
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
Its an experiment. And you'll need a control. Whats that? Air? water? 7up?
10-20-11, 01:12 PM
#29
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mustang, Ok
Posts: 16
Bikes: Trek Cobia 29er, Giant Sedona 26"
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
10-20-11, 01:22 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 2,678
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Ok I use mineral sprits all the time so I just put some links in several in fact into my cleaning jar for you all and will leave it a week. (Should I leave it longer? how long would you all like to see LOL)
I really don't think anything will happen to my links.
Are we wagering any BF bets here LOL.....
I really don't think anything will happen to my links.
Are we wagering any BF bets here LOL.....
__________________
It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
https://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm
It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
https://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm
10-20-11, 01:24 PM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edgewater, CO
Posts: 3,213
Bikes: Tons
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You really should try eight months like the original poster.
10-20-11, 02:58 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,128
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times
in
27 Posts
Wow, that's weird! I too doubt if mineral spirits can cause such cracks. If it did damage the chain, why would it show up as cracks anyway. You'd think that it would be more of an overall corrosive etching effect rather than cracking, unless you are hinting at possible metal embrittlement, which then propagated the cracks from existing stress risers? I have never heard of mineral spirits causing such, specially as it is on the mild side when it comes to these types of liquid solvent cleaners. As suggested, find a test chain and soak it in the same mineral spirits see if the same damage happens. It will be good to know if we need to avoid this mineral spirit "substitute".
Chombi
Chombi
10-20-11, 04:13 PM
#34
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It is chemically impossible for mineral spirits to attack metal. The damage to the chain must have been there before you soaked the chain. If mineral spirits attacked metal, you wouldn't be able to store it in the metal containers that it is normally sold in.
10-20-11, 05:49 PM
#35
'09 Synapse Carbon 3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 727
Bikes: '09 Synapse Carbon 3, R5000, R2000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have a chain soaking in this solution right now, almost two months. I have used this stuff for close to a year now with no problems. Note that this stuff comes in a plastic gallon container and not metal, strangely or is there a reason? It might make a difference as to the purity of the solution. Mine is pretty greasy as it still works great after multiple uses. I will report back tomorrow once I have pulled my chain out and inspected. I am also rotating three chains on my cassette and have over 10K on it and expect at least 5K more. I am using SRAM quick links not KMC.
Last edited by lpolliard; 10-20-11 at 11:29 PM.
10-20-11, 06:39 PM
#36
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 39
Bikes: Bella, Masi Gran Corsa Premo, BH cyclocross, Colnago C40, Iron Horse MB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
1 Post
I'd be more convinced it you took some extra links from a new chain and soaked them in solvent and let sit and they came out cracked. I would bet you could let them sit for ever without cracks forming.
10-20-11, 07:01 PM
#37
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 39
Bikes: Bella, Masi Gran Corsa Premo, BH cyclocross, Colnago C40, Iron Horse MB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
1 Post
I just broke a 10 speed Ultegra chain with 1,100 road miles on it. I thought this was was way too soon and did some research on chain life on the web. Most people were getting 2,000 to 3,000 miles on a 10 speed chain which gives a cassette and 3 chains (in rotation) a life expectancy of 6,000 to 9,000 miles. Some people were getting less than 1,000 miles on a chain. I think 12,000 miles for 3 chains is plenty.
10-20-11, 07:49 PM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
The "some people" getting less than 1000 miles on a chain might have been retiring their chains voluntarily to avoid cassette cog wear. If they were all reporting broken chains, they were doing something terribly wrong.
I've ridden for 157,000 miles, mostly on Shimano 8 and 9-speed chains and a few Wippermann 9 and 10-speed chains. I change the chains and cassettes together at 6000 - 75000 mile intervals and have NEVER broken a chain. And my riding conditions are not flat, as my forum name would indicate, so these chains aren't babied.
10-20-11, 08:20 PM
#39
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Simple Green is slightly alkaline and can lead to some reactions with metals that result in cracking. The Klean-Strip® Green™ Odorless Mineral Spirits you linked to isn't 'mineral spirits' in the traditional sense. It's about 40% light end petroleum distillate and is an emulsion. If you are emulsifying petroleum, you are probably emulsifying it with a water based material or some other polar liquid. The MSDS says that the liquid melts at 0 C and boils at around 100 C. Suspiciously, that corresponds to the properties of water and I suspect that they use a surfactant to get the petroleum distillate into an emulsion. That makes the 'mineral spirits' far more like Simple Green than petroleum based mineral spirits.
Real mineral spirits should be a colorless liquid with a slight to strong petroleum odor. It won't damage parts because it can interact with the parts. It will dissolve grease but you could soak your parts in it for decades and never have any kind of corrosion or damage...to metal parts. Plastics bits are different.
Your cracking issue is with the green part of Klean-Strip® Green™ Odorless Mineral Spirits. Because they added a polar liquid (likely water), soaking parts in that mixture isn't benign.
Real mineral spirits should be a colorless liquid with a slight to strong petroleum odor. It won't damage parts because it can interact with the parts. It will dissolve grease but you could soak your parts in it for decades and never have any kind of corrosion or damage...to metal parts. Plastics bits are different.
Your cracking issue is with the green part of Klean-Strip® Green™ Odorless Mineral Spirits. Because they added a polar liquid (likely water), soaking parts in that mixture isn't benign.
10-20-11, 08:25 PM
#40
Senior Member
Thread Starter
A random piece? Hardly. It was two separate perfectly intact quick links and associated chains in different containers (glass) both in the same "green" mineral spirits. Plenty here have attested to the fact that regular mineral spirits won't harm metal no matter how long you soak a chain in it. That much is proven. My "test" (unintentional as it might have been) shows that the "green" mineral spirits can attack a chain severely enough in 8 months to make it unuseable. 8 months happens to coincide with how long it takes me to cover 4000 miles which I was using as my chain rotation period.
10-20-11, 08:28 PM
#41
Senior Member
Thread Starter
How weak do you think my legs are? Those split plates would fall apart before I made it out of my neighborhood. There is NO WAY the chain was in that condition before I put it in the "green" mineral spirits.
10-20-11, 08:30 PM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada
Posts: 1,541
Bikes: Cannondale t1, Koga-Miyata World Traveller
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Just so you know, the wimpass mineral spirits you buy with no odour, no toxins, no carcinogens, is no good. The evil nasties in real mineral spirits is what does the job.
Just kidding... but a firm believer in old fashioned mineral spirits.
10-20-11, 08:35 PM
#43
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I agree that regular (but still "odorless") mineral spirits works far better at chain cleaning than the "green" stuff. The "green" stuff did work though but it was only really good for one use. It's so thick that you can't even pour it through cheese cloth to separate out the grit. With regular mineral spirits, all the crap settles right to the bottom allowing you to pour off the good stuff from the top and reuse it (not that this is news to anyone here).
10-20-11, 09:01 PM
#45
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 39
Bikes: Bella, Masi Gran Corsa Premo, BH cyclocross, Colnago C40, Iron Horse MB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
1 Post
I've ridden for 157,000 miles, mostly on Shimano 8 and 9-speed chains and a few Wippermann 9 and 10-speed chains. I change the chains and cassettes together at 6000 - 75000 mile intervals and have NEVER broken a chain. And my riding conditions are not flat, as my forum name would indicate, so these chains aren't babied.
Keep the round side down,
paul
Last edited by deermouse; 10-20-11 at 09:10 PM.
10-20-11, 09:17 PM
#46
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 39
Bikes: Bella, Masi Gran Corsa Premo, BH cyclocross, Colnago C40, Iron Horse MB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
1 Post
No comment on your legs, but if the "green mineral spirits" eats through chain, it should also eat through new chain. I would still be more convinced if it did that to a new chain.
10-20-11, 11:37 PM
#47
'09 Synapse Carbon 3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 727
Bikes: '09 Synapse Carbon 3, R5000, R2000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Two straight months in the same solution and no cracks. To be safe I won't be soaking my chains long periods in this stuff and will switch to the real stuff when I run out.
10-20-11, 11:50 PM
#48
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
I learned an interesting lesson recently. I had read a while back about some guy who left his Shimano chain in Simple Green for a while and later had it fail quite spectacularly on him while riding. "Who does that?" I thought to myself. Then I go and leave my own chain (actually two of them) soaking in mineral spirits while I use a third in a chain rotation.
Pictured below is how I found the quick link, luckily something obvious enough to be noticed prior to putting the chain back on my bike. Several links of the chain also showed the same damage.
Pictured below is how I found the quick link, luckily something obvious enough to be noticed prior to putting the chain back on my bike. Several links of the chain also showed the same damage.
Putting a chain in an alleged destructive solution should have caused global damage and not just localized damage as your image shows.
10-21-11, 02:52 AM
#49
Senior Member
A broken chain in less than 1100 miles is almost always a symptom of improper installation unless the chain was subjected to dreadfully abusive riding or a serious mishap like running a piece of wire through it like a friend once did.
The "some people" getting less than 1000 miles on a chain might have been retiring their chains voluntarily to avoid cassette cog wear. If they were all reporting broken chains, they were doing something terribly wrong.
I've ridden for 157,000 miles, mostly on Shimano 8 and 9-speed chains and a few Wippermann 9 and 10-speed chains. I change the chains and cassettes together at 6000 - 75000 mile intervals and have NEVER broken a chain. And my riding conditions are not flat, as my forum name would indicate, so these chains aren't babied.
The "some people" getting less than 1000 miles on a chain might have been retiring their chains voluntarily to avoid cassette cog wear. If they were all reporting broken chains, they were doing something terribly wrong.
I've ridden for 157,000 miles, mostly on Shimano 8 and 9-speed chains and a few Wippermann 9 and 10-speed chains. I change the chains and cassettes together at 6000 - 75000 mile intervals and have NEVER broken a chain. And my riding conditions are not flat, as my forum name would indicate, so these chains aren't babied.
Remember, there was a batch of Ultegra chains that were breaking at the plates through a manufacturing defect.
There are also, I believe, issues with chain checkers that people use for convenience, rather than measuring with a ruler. Hence, chains might be retired because the chain checker says so, but might still have plenty of life left in them.
As to the original post, I take on board what cyccommute says, but would the chemical reaction have been localised at one location on all link plates rather than "globally" if that was the case?
Who knows? I will just stick with diesel as my cleaner of choice.
10-21-11, 06:22 AM
#50
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I bet if you checked the material hardness or tensile strength, it's globally weaker now.