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Shimano 9 Cassette and Campy 10 everything else?

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Shimano 9 Cassette and Campy 10 everything else?

Old 02-22-24, 05:27 PM
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Shimano 9 Cassette and Campy 10 everything else?

This feels repetitive. I know this has been asked and answered before.

My semi-functional little brain seems to remember that a shimano 9 speed cassette has the same spacing as Campagnolo 10. Such as that you donít need a special spacer or a shift mate. Just slap that Japanese cassette on, re-index your shifting if needed, and fiddle with your stops so that extra click doesnít eff you up.

Done?

I can do all that. Easy.

My googling has 3 very different answers.

1. The technical manual readers who all say you canít

2. The shiftmate shimagnolo guys who have an adapter for everything (and might smell funny).

3. The minority of people who say theyíve actually done it and it works.

Before I order a 9 speed cassette for 10 speed campy bike, I just want to double check here.

(literacy check, I will be mounting said 9 speed cassette on a shimano freehub, so donít even say it)
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Old 02-22-24, 07:39 PM
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Forum member here Bike Gremlin, has an article on S & C cassette spacing which shows that the 10sp Campy shifters have variable spacing through the range of cogs while Shimano are even spacing. Bicycle speeds - rear sprockets | BikeGremlin The Shimano cassette is not likely going to work with its original cog spacing and even though some say it will I find some folks are not that discriminating with the quality of their shifting in situations like this. I have never tried this myself so maybe someone else who has will chime in.

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Old 02-22-24, 08:47 PM
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Shimano 9-speed has 4.32mm cog spacing. Campy 10-speed averages around 4.12mm. I have built and used many 'mixed' systems, including Shimergo, but this is too much of a difference to produce acceptable indexed shifting.

BTW: acceptable shifting is that every shift is perfect every time. As in no over-shifting, under shifting, hesitation, clattering, noise etc. But again, 0.2mm per cog spacing difference accumulates. A few of the cogs may seemingly work, but at the extremes of the cassette, the results will be a noisy inconsistent mess.

What is preventing you from sourcing a Campagnolo rear wheel with a 10-speed cassette? There seems to be a great sell-off of this gear, at least in my part of the world.

Another thing.. Indexed shifting is a simple system that requires the shifter cable pull, the cog spacing, and the derailleur mechanical advantage to match. "Trying" something without first running the numbers is a pointless waste of time. If the numbers work, then the shifting will work - every time.
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Old 02-22-24, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer

What is preventing you from sourcing a Campagnolo rear wheel with a 10-speed cassette?
I bought a smart trainer, to maximize my few days that I actually can get out on the bike.

Specifically, the tacx neo.

However, of my 4 bikes, none would work immediately. I have Ekar, 10sp Campy Chorus, SRAM Eagle, and Dura Ace 7400 (6 speed Uniglide baby).

I believe my best bet long term will be to buy an older bike and convert it to trainer duty. The most appropriate local option is a Peugeot frame for $30 but Iím unwilling to jump into French threading over a trainer bike.

While I shop, Iíd sure like to get the trainer fired up, if itís possible with my fleet.

I just saw that Planet Cyclery had a Campy freehub for $44. Which is about 1/3 the price of everywhere else. So I ordered that and hope itís not a scam.

Last edited by rosefarts; 02-22-24 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 02-22-24, 09:55 PM
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I worked at a shop that sold a lot of Campy 10 with Shimano cassettes and I serviced many of those bikes a few years later. It was kind of jenky, but that combination worked better than 9 would.

My choice would be to take a Shimano/SRAM lower end cassette and build up the spacers between 2 and 9 with masking tape or vellum rings. Both won't compress and add the few fractions of a mm to get the spacing closer to Campy.

The variable spacing of some Campy cassettes is not important. It is much less than the float of the pulley.
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Old 02-22-24, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
I just saw that Planet Cyclery had a Campy freehub for $44. Which is about 1/3 the price of everywhere else. So I ordered that and hope itís not a scam.
Not a scam. It seems like Planet Cyclery / Colorado Cyclist (from which I bought my first upgrade wheels) are liquidating.
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Old 02-23-24, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I worked at a shop that sold a lot of Campy 10 with Shimano cassettes and I serviced many of those bikes a few years later. It was kind of jenky, but that combination worked better than 9 would.
Interesting. Iíve always sort of heard that the 9 speed shimano is the better fit.

But yes, if you look at spacing, Campy 10 speed is somewhat in between Shimano 9 and 10.

Does anyone remember the American Classic cassette with shimano splines and Campy spacing. Those were cool in 2003.

I think I might have gotten lucky with the proper cassette body. At that price, Iíll wait until itís in my hands to celebrate. Whether itís actually out of stock, or actually Shimano mislabeled, or something else totally weird, I am suspicious of that price.

If it doesnít work, I do like the idea of tape ďspacersĒ. I think I have a roll of that adhesive aluminum foil stuff. I donít have any precise measurement device but I think that can be estimated to a certain degree with trial and error.
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Old 02-23-24, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
Interesting. Iíve always sort of heard that the 9 speed shimano is the better fit.

But yes, if you look at spacing, Campy 10 speed is somewhat in between Shimano 9 and 10.

Does anyone remember the American Classic cassette with shimano splines and Campy spacing. Those were cool in 2003.

I think I might have gotten lucky with the proper cassette body. At that price, Iíll wait until itís in my hands to celebrate. Whether itís actually out of stock, or actually Shimano mislabeled, or something else totally weird, I am suspicious of that price.

If it doesnít work, I do like the idea of tape ďspacersĒ. I think I have a roll of that adhesive aluminum foil stuff. I donít have any precise measurement device but I think that can be estimated to a certain degree with trial and error.
Campy 10 is essentially 4.12 spacing, while Shimano is 3.95 and Shimano 9 is 4.34. .17 vs .22.
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Old 02-23-24, 12:00 PM
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I have done all kinds of dodgy bike hacks in my past, including creating custom spaced cassettes. Since Campy 10 has a wider spacing than Shimano 10, the overall cassette width will necessarily be wider.

Unfortunately too wide for a standard Shimano 10-speed freehub. However, the newer Shimano 11-speed freehubs (and clones) will provide enough width to respace a Shimano cassette for Campy spacing. Alu beer can walls have a thickness of 0.2mm, or what you need. I've done this before: laboriously cut out alu beer-can spacers for insertion in between cogs to widen out the cassette. Don't slice yourself doing this - wear heavy gloves.

Obstacle: most higher-end Shimano 10-speed cassettes have 3 of the large cogs attached by an alu spider. The best solution is a cheap loose-cog cassette, in which the rivets connecting the cogs can be drilled out.
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Old 02-23-24, 12:16 PM
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From your post, it appears that you are going to run 9 Shimano cogs and just block off the Campagnolo 10th shift position on the RD.

I have not done a Shimano to Campagnolo spacer swap. When my 7 speed mtb (7 speed freehub) bowl trigger shifter bonked, I went to an 8 speed shifter and merely sanded the plastic spacers to match the RD movement; 1.85mm cogs with 2.95mm plastic spacers equals 4.80mm. Using sandpaper, a flat surface, and digital calipers it is a piece of cake.

Since than I have mixed-n-matched everything from 7 to 10 speed cogs to build cassettes. You do need full cassette cogs and not ones attached to a carrier. A few years ago I bought a bag of assorted used spacers, hundreds of them, so now I'm a pig...

The issue I see is getting the correct Campagnolo spacing. The link below from the Cycling UK Forum might provide that info.

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopi...69975&start=15

For me there is no other direction than to just re-space the 9 speed Shimano cassette to Campagnolo 10 speed.

John

Edit added: Don't make a hard limit screw stop. Give it a skosh of play so the pawl doesn't wedge.

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Old 02-23-24, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
For me there is no other direction than to just re-space the 9 speed Shimano cassette to Campagnolo 10 speed.
Why can't you go 10 to 10 by thickening the spacers?
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Old 02-23-24, 12:51 PM
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Another thing to keep in mind. This will be a trainer only use.

That means that Iíll likely be more sensitive to noise.

It also means that Iíll never be stranded so I am willing to do some goofy stuff. As long as I donít suck my derailleur into my spokes.

But if itís super irritating to ride, itíll definitely get ridden less.

I received shipping confirmation from Planet Cyclery already. Something is in the mail. Whether itís something that makes this line of questioning moot, we shall see.
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Old 02-23-24, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
I have done all kinds of dodgy bike hacks in my past, including creating custom spaced cassettes. Since Campy 10 has a wider spacing than Shimano 10, the overall cassette width will necessarily be wider.

Unfortunately too wide for a standard Shimano 10-speed freehub. However, the newer Shimano 11-speed freehubs (and clones) will provide enough width to respace a Shimano cassette for Campy spacing. Alu beer can walls have a thickness of 0.2mm, or what you need. I've done this before: laboriously cut out alu beer-can spacers for insertion in between cogs to widen out the cassette. Don't slice yourself doing this - wear heavy gloves.

Obstacle: most higher-end Shimano 10-speed cassettes have 3 of the large cogs attached by an alu spider. The best solution is a cheap loose-cog cassette, in which the rivets connecting the cogs can be drilled out.
You need 7x.17=1.19mm. Are you sure you can't squeeze that much extra onto a 8/9/10 freehub?
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Old 02-23-24, 01:33 PM
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As the OP already mentioned and if I also wanted to do this, I would just go with the Jtek Shiftmate converter thingamajig, around $35+. Throw either a 9 or 10sp Shimano cassette on and the Shiftmate #1 can be setup for either. No farting around with spacers or expensive converter cassettes. Shiftmate Compatibility Charts and Choices - Jtek Engineering

Last edited by Crankycrank; 02-23-24 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 02-23-24, 02:04 PM
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I'm one of those running a Shimano 9 cassette with Campy 10 everything else. It's a little fiddly to set up; zero the trim on the middle cog (5th gear). Once it's set up, it's good until I need to change the derailer cable.

Much better IME than the Shiftmate, which I never got to work. Maybe there are 10 kinds of mechanics, those who understand binary -- no, wait, wrong gig; those who can get a Campagnano setup to work, and those who can get a Shiftmate to work.
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Old 02-23-24, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank
As the OP already mentioned and if I also wanted to do this, I would just go with the Jtek Shiftmate converter thingamajig, around $35+. Throw either a 9 or 10sp Shimano cassette on and the Shiftmate #1 can be setup for either. No farting around with spacers or expensive converter cassettes. Shiftmate Compatibility Charts and Choices - Jtek Engineering
The trouble is wanting the bike to be capable of still riding on the road without major fiddling.
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Old 02-23-24, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
I'm one of those running a Shimano 9 cassette with Campy 10 everything else. It's a little fiddly to set up; zero the trim on the middle cog (5th gear). Once it's set up, it's good until I need to change the derailer cable.

Much better IME than the Shiftmate, which I never got to work. Maybe there are 10 kinds of mechanics, those who understand binary -- no, wait, wrong gig; those who can get a Campagnano setup to work, and those who can get a Shiftmate to work.
I have only talked to two people using Campy 10sp everything with Shimano 10sp cassettes and they loved the Shiftmate. They said that it was very important to cut the cable housing a little shorter at the rear loop to make it work properly so that's all I can offer but I would also try your setup suggestion first before spending on the SM.
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Old 02-23-24, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank
I have only talked to two people using Campy 10sp everything with Shimano 10sp cassettes and they loved the Shiftmate. They said that it was very important to cut the cable housing a little shorter at the rear loop to make it work properly so that's all I can offer but I would also try your setup suggestion first before spending on the SM.
His wheels are Campy, the trainer Shimano.
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Old 02-28-24, 10:11 AM
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Update that pretty much negates this entire thread. The Campy freehub that was on sale for $45 (from $130), is in fact the correct one for this trainer. It took me about 2 minutes to switch it up, I could have done it faster but I added some light grease for good measure.

I used a Miche 13-29 cassette that is pretty heavy and gets spun out down most hills, so Iíve always kinda hated it. Seems like a perfect place for it.

I dropped my bike on it at went for a ride around the countryside of Belgium on Rouvy. Absolutely seamless transition.

I definitely do appreciate the comments and discussion. With 2 Campagnolo wheel sets for this bike, Iíll likely never need to try to make this work. Itís fun to see what might work though.

Of course I saved the Shimano freehub, if the right dumpster find presents itself I may create a trainer only half bike.
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